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Author Topic: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]  (Read 7742 times)

jimmijamjams

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Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« on: July 13, 2015, 03:38:14 AM »

G'day everyone!

I've been musing about setting this up for a while here and on reddit.  I've always found seed runs a fun way to put a community element into single player games and now that the functionality for seeds is working I think it's time to get something going for Cogmind.

My thoughts on this are as follows:
  • Seeds are listed weekly (I may change this depending upon the interest)
  • Seeds are based on suggestions by the community (if there are a lot I'll mix them up with some RNG to select them)
  • You should only play the seed once
  • I'll post the instructions on how to input seeds and post an image of the starting layout of items and the first level after the Scrapyard
  • To avoid confusion each seed run will be listed in a new thread
  • When posting results attach a copy of your scoresheet (instructions on how to do this will be provided)
  • The will be 'Winners' in a variety of different categories (e.g. Highest Score, Most Parts Attached, Slowest Average Speed, Most Melee Kills) and people are free to find the category where they 'win' (e.g. Lowest Score, Highest Time Spent Naked, etc)
  • The main thing is to create some conversation around playing the same seed and discuss how people like to play the game

So, drop a reply if you're interested, post some suggestions if you like, and if people are keen I'll set this up.  I'll also post a link to this on the subreddit to pick up people who might miss this post.

jjj
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 09:47:24 AM by jimmijamjams »
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zxc

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2015, 04:08:22 AM »

I like the idea. A weekly seed could also be built into the game I imagine.
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jimmijamjams

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2015, 06:37:14 AM »

I like the idea. A weekly seed could also be built into the game I imagine.

Welcome aboard!

It would be interesting if a weekly seed was set up in-game, but I've always enjoyed the forum interaction doing it the 'old fashioned way' :)

I'll wait about a day or so to see what interest there is and then start it up.
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zxc

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2015, 06:48:05 AM »

It's more that I think a built-in weekly seed generator could encourage participation and subsequently interaction on the forum.

I've only been playing for two days, and a dozen games so far. I reached -1 on one of them but I've yet to replicate that since. So I probably wouldn't get far on a given seed just yet.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2015, 08:15:09 AM »

Well, I'd certainly join in, and I know at least several others who haven't seen this yet who are interested. Plus I'd advertise it on Twitter and no doubt get at least a few more participants that way.

Recognizing everyone for their interesting play styles and achievements will be fun (like I did with the 7DRL tournament).

I mentioned before that I think seed runs will be even more fun with Alpha 3 due to the addition of extra unchanging seed-based content in the form of Traps. But it doesn't hurt to get the format down now! As is it will mostly be route, map layouts, and items found that help define the run (robots not quite as much since their presence is more dynamic).

About the source of the weekly seed, it could easily be built into the game, though at least for now I think it's fine to do it manually, and somewhat more fun since it doesn't have to be a number :D

Edit: It should also be made clear that you're only supposed to play the seeded run once, because not everyone might be familiar with that rule.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 08:34:54 AM by Kyzrati »
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Phuket

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2015, 09:18:45 AM »

You most certainly know I'm down.  ;D Is there a way we could have this set up somewhere more official to make it easier to post rules, seeds, victories and the such? Maybe a separate area of the forums? I don't know what our limitations are but I think it would be a ton of fun and encourage a lot of community interaction! 
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Kyzrati

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2015, 09:42:46 AM »

You were the first interested player who came to mind, Phuket ;)

On seeing this, especially the suggestion that each run be a separate thread (which does make sense) I was highly considering making a new forum board specifically for things like this. Plus it will be a good place to host the official Alpha tournament.

I'll add it shortly and move this thread.
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jimmijamjams

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2015, 10:08:51 AM »

I've only been playing for two days, and a dozen games so far. I reached -1 on one of them but I've yet to replicate that since. So I probably wouldn't get far on a given seed just yet.

Wow! That's impressive!  I've only made it to level -1 once, but it was several weeks after the initial release.

Well, I'd certainly join in, and I know at least several others who haven't seen this yet who are interested. Plus I'd advertise it on Twitter and no doubt get at least a few more participants that way.

Recognizing everyone for their interesting play styles and achievements will be fun (like I did with the 7DRL tournament).

I mentioned before that I think seed runs will be even more fun with Alpha 3 due to the addition of extra unchanging seed-based content in the form of Traps. But it doesn't hurt to get the format down now! As is it will mostly be route, map layouts, and items found that help define the run (robots not quite as much since their presence is more dynamic).

About the source of the weekly seed, it could easily be built into the game, though at least for now I think it's fine to do it manually, and somewhat more fun since it doesn't have to be a number :D

Good to hear you'll be joining us!  I'll be interested to know how you approach the game.  The 7DRL tournament is what I based some of the ideas for the achievements, I'll make a list of achievements when I post the first thread.  One of the reasons for starting it now is partly to get the format down for when more people are playing.

Edit: It should also be made clear that you're only supposed to play the seeded run once, because not everyone might be familiar with that rule.

I've edited the list to include that people should only play the seed once.

You most certainly know I'm down.  ;D Is there a way we could have this set up somewhere more official to make it easier to post rules, seeds, victories and the such? Maybe a separate area of the forums? I don't know what our limitations are but I think it would be a ton of fun and encourage a lot of community interaction! 

Excellent!  Great to have you on board!

I'm definitely down for a separate area on the forums to avoid cluttering it up and I'm happy for you to PM me or post suggestions here to flesh out what achievements could be included.  High score and level achieved are certainly some of the main ones, but I really like the idea of including some obscure achievements that might be difficult or just dangerous to achieve.  Kyzrati already mentioned the tournament for Cogmind 7DRL, I'll have another look at the site for some inspiration when setting up the first run.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2015, 10:29:38 AM »

I've only been playing for two days, and a dozen games so far. I reached -1 on one of them but I've yet to replicate that since. So I probably wouldn't get far on a given seed just yet.

Wow! That's impressive!  I've only made it to level -1 once, but it was several weeks after the initial release.
I must say I was impressed when I read that, too. -1 is no easy feat.

Good to hear you'll be joining us!  I'll be interested to know how you approach the game.
You mean you want to see if you can glean anything about how the game works from what I do, right? ;)

In all seriousness, you guys are already clocking way more real games than I've ever played! I used to be more careful, but I've gotten a lot more gung-ho in my approaches, as you'll probably see. Can depend on what's lying around of course!

I'm a bit rusty right now, though I'll be up for it after I do a couple games of Alpha 2 playtesting (around the corner).

Kyzrati already mentioned the tournament for Cogmind 7DRL, I'll have another look at the site for some inspiration when setting up the first run.
One thing to remember when looking at that list is that the participants did not know what the award categories would be beforehand, so they couldn't specifically aim for one of them. Announcing them in advance will be nice (as is having a recurring/expanding set), though it might be best that they're not something that could easily be gamed, at least not without really interesting results or handicapping the player in some way.

Thinking more along those lines, so-called "conduct" runs might work as an additional event, whether or not combined with a seed.
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jimmijamjams

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2015, 11:13:13 AM »

You mean you want to see if you can glean anything about how the game works from what I do, right? ;)

Am I so transparent? ;)  I actually think it might be more interesting for you than for us in a way.  Knowing that you're playing the same seed as the less enlightened could be an interesting exercise with unforeseen benefits.  Or you could just be laughing your way to the top of the leaderboard each week :)


One thing to remember when looking at that list is that the participants did not know what the award categories would be beforehand, so they couldn't specifically aim for one of them. Announcing them in advance will be nice (as is having a recurring/expanding set), though it might be best that they're not something that could easily be gamed, at least not without really interesting results or handicapping the player in some way.

Thinking more along those lines, so-called "conduct" runs might work as an additional event, whether or not combined with a seed.

That's a good point.  Maybe I'll make a pool of secret achievements and use some RNG to select two or three to be revealed at the end of the week.

Hopefully with the seed runs becoming a regular feature people start coming up their own conduct runs.
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zxc

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2015, 12:01:19 PM »

Brogue has a weekly seed competition http://brogue.createforumhosting.com/brogue-general-discussion-f1.html
DCSS had a weekly sudden death challenge for a time https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=13761
Also the DCSS tournaments http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/

Perhaps we can get some ideas from the above, for the weekly seeds and/or the tournament.

I'd be keen on weekly seeds to be focused on interesting and zanny stories, while the tournaments be more competitive and challenge oriented. I've only been watching two LPers so far and you're both in this thread, which is quite cool I gotta say. Seeded games would be ideal to record and LP I think!

I've only been playing for two days, and a dozen games so far. I reached -1 on one of them but I've yet to replicate that since. So I probably wouldn't get far on a given seed just yet.

Wow! That's impressive!  I've only made it to level -1 once, but it was several weeks after the initial release.
I must say I was impressed when I read that, too. -1 is no easy feat.

I had been dying on the first 1-3 floors every other game, but then I realised your core is very durable and the 50 delay movespeed while naked is actually fantastic. So I stopped trying to fight things and it turned into a pacifist run. Mining through walls was really cool, but after a while it seemed to stop working.

Morgue
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Didn't kill anything past the first couple of floors, and mostly just ran circles around enemies, stealthed around, and hacked terminals to find access points and map reveals. It was a lot like playing a spriggan in DCSS, except more durable. On -1 I explored a ton of the map but eventually got trapped in dead ends too many times and slowly died.

Edit: I just came across biomatter's screenshots of a stealth run. https://www.reddit.com/r/Cogmind/comments/36pksb/post_cool_stuff_youve_found/crg8i7k
My run was just like that, except no fancy biomechanical wings for me. I also agree that a replay mode would be magnificent (Brogue has one :) ).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 12:23:50 PM by zxc »
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jimmijamjams

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2015, 06:47:39 PM »

Brogue has a weekly seed competition http://brogue.createforumhosting.com/brogue-general-discussion-f1.html
DCSS had a weekly sudden death challenge for a time https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=13761
Also the DCSS tournaments http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/

Perhaps we can get some ideas from the above, for the weekly seeds and/or the tournament.

Thanks for those links to the Brogue and DCSS seed runs.  I'll use them as a reference when setting up the first seed.


I'd be keen on weekly seeds to be focused on interesting and zanny stories, while the tournaments be more competitive and challenge oriented. I've only been watching two LPers so far and you're both in this thread, which is quite cool I gotta say. Seeded games would be ideal to record and LP I think!

These weekly seeds, while competitive, are certainly not official in capacity.  I too see them as a fun way to explore stories within the game.  I'll leave it to Kyzrati when it comes to all the official stuff (such as the upcoming tournament).


I had been dying on the first 1-3 floors every other game, but then I realised your core is very durable and the 50 delay movespeed while naked is actually fantastic. So I stopped trying to fight things and it turned into a pacifist run. Mining through walls was really cool, but after a while it seemed to stop working.

I'm still learning when it's best to run or fight.  It's not always obvious on the later levels (at least not for me).  I spent most of my time in the 7DRL running away at every opportunity.  You couldn't bump robots out of the way in that version so if you were cornered with no weapons it was game over.  Part of the charm with this game for me is that there is a sweet spot in most runs that require a complete change in tactics.  I've also heard tales from Kyzrati about people finishing the 7DRL by burrowing through the walls all the way to the end! (doesn't work so well these days with the cave-ins implemented)


Didn't kill anything past the first couple of floors, and mostly just ran circles around enemies, stealthed around, and hacked terminals to find access points and map reveals. It was a lot like playing a spriggan in DCSS, except more durable. On -1 I explored a ton of the map but eventually got trapped in dead ends too many times and slowly died.

This is the story of my life on the later levels :)  I posted a story to this effect here, which details my furthest run (although not my highest score).


Edit: I just came across biomatter's screenshots of a stealth run. https://www.reddit.com/r/Cogmind/comments/36pksb/post_cool_stuff_youve_found/crg8i7k
My run was just like that, except no fancy biomechanical wings for me. I also agree that a replay mode would be magnificent (Brogue has one :) ).

Hehe, we had a lot of fun sharing items on that thread :D  Although, biomatter was far more dedicated than me.  It became pretty rare for me to find an item that he hadn't found already and I'm yet to find another Centurium Greatsword after finding it that first time (best. weapon. ever.)

I really like Brogue's replay system.  You can learn a lot from studying other people's play styles, however I'm usually more a fan of bumbling through on my own in most games.  I'll never be a great player, but it's a lot more fun for me :)
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Kyzrati

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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2015, 08:12:48 PM »

You mean you want to see if you can glean anything about how the game works from what I do, right? ;)
Am I so transparent? ;)  I actually think it might be more interesting for you than for us in a way.  Knowing that you're playing the same seed as the less enlightened could be an interesting exercise with unforeseen benefits.  Or you could just be laughing your way to the top of the leaderboard each week :)

Well, while I say I'll participate it's in the playing and discussion/stories. I don't think it would be fair for me to actually be listed for anything, since he knows too much! Even though I bet some of you will do better than myself for as long as I'm out of practice, I still have an unfair advantage. I participate "unofficially" :)

I'd be keen on weekly seeds to be focused on interesting and zanny stories, while the tournaments be more competitive and challenge oriented. I've only been watching two LPers so far and you're both in this thread, which is quite cool I gotta say. Seeded games would be ideal to record and LP I think!
Agreed! I'm sure more participants would be inclined to watch and they could be good points of discussion.

The seed runs are really just friendly competition anyway, not super seriously competitive. At least that's my opinion of them, and yeah the focus would be more on stories and strategies both. By comparison I only plan to have one tournament during alpha, though of course others are welcome to organize what they like aside from seed runs. The planned tournament can somewhat set a precedent for that after you see how it's run, and we'll have badges for participants and winners (as well as seed run participation eventually, once it gets started and I can work that stuff out).

I had been dying on the first 1-3 floors every other game, but then I realised your core is very durable and the 50 delay movespeed while naked is actually fantastic. So I stopped trying to fight things and it turned into a pacifist run. Mining through walls was really cool, but after a while it seemed to stop working.
Later on mining equipment won't work so well on the stronger walls in upper floors; for those areas you generally need a cannon if you want to blow through (then can mine the earth behind fairly easily).

Didn't kill anything past the first couple of floors, and mostly just ran circles around enemies, stealthed around, and hacked terminals to find access points and map reveals. It was a lot like playing a spriggan in DCSS, except more durable. On -1 I explored a ton of the map but eventually got trapped in dead ends too many times and slowly died.
Pacifist runs are the easiest way to get far, but do become increasingly risky on later floors. They earn the lowest score as well.

Hehe, we had a lot of fun sharing items on that thread :D  Although, biomatter was far more dedicated than me.  It became pretty rare for me to find an item that he hadn't found already and I'm yet to find another Centurium Greatsword after finding it that first time (best. weapon. ever.)
Even better melee blades do exist (although one in particular I'm thinking of can't be found yet :P).
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Re: Weekly Seed Runs!!! [Alpha 1b]
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2015, 03:20:20 AM »

You were the first interested player who came to mind, Phuket


Oh you know I'm so ready for some awesome stories and challenges! Plus it's always a blast to see how people react to the same problems you run into during your seed run. Thanks for setting up the new competition section of the forums! Will be nice for future tournaments and such!


Well, while I say I'll participate it's in the playing and discussion/stories. I don't think it would be fair for me to actually be listed for anything, since he knows too much! Even though I bet some of you will do better than myself for as long as I'm out of practice, I still have an unfair advantage. I participate "unofficially" :)


I look forward to seeing you participate! Even if you feel it's not for score. :) I'm sure you know all sorts of secrets!

I may be trying to practice a more silent/fast run. Tons of flight units and engines. I'm going to the moon!
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I play and commentate games with a heavy emphasis on 4x, Strategy, Tycoon, and Roguelikes.
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My Cogmind Series:
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