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Author Topic: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]  (Read 15854 times)

Sherlockkat

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2016, 07:27:46 PM »

Quote
That sounds interesting, I hadn't thought of adding Trojans that enhance a machine's regular functionality like that. By this you mean even Repair Stations that aren't a high enough rating?

Yep. That's exactly what I mean. The low level repair units are pretty cool and useful early in the game. I don't use the high level machines all that much. I have had hacks fail on them (esp garrisons) when I have had +70pc from hacking gear. Toss in the fact that you are on the clock on higher floors and don't want to get traced, the high level machines are a lot less desirable to play around with. So, being able to buff up the lower level machines with trojans might be interesting.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2016, 07:43:41 PM »

Ah, okay, but in this case that won't really be necessary since all stations will probably be able to repair anything. The advantage of using higher-rated stations will be a faster repair time. But allowing it to be even faster with a Trojan might work, although it would also need to be balanced against the fact that you could then theoretically turn a low-rated station into a high-rated station.
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Enno

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2016, 02:39:47 PM »

ok thanks for this answer, save a lot of time ..
because i tried a lot of hacks and none with succsess :D :D

 i would like when we could use all other machines than the terminals
for a botnet too.

...and i have my own little cogmind-hack-wiki with 14 unauthorized hacks in it.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2016, 06:58:30 PM »

i would like when we could use all other machines than the terminals
for a botnet too.
That would be a little OP :P. There are already plenty of terminals out there, and there are diminishing returns on botnets, anyway. More importantly, from a design perspective the idea is that by choosing to add a terminal to your botnet, you might fail and have to forgo other hacking opportunities there, so it's a trade off. I did think of a couple new non-terminal Trojans yesterday that I'll see about adding soon, though.

I also noticed Qbert911 has recently put a new section about these hacks on the wiki :). It's incomplete, though I know a few players are familiar with more of the hacks, having seen me do them before.
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Enno

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2016, 04:09:24 AM »

ok. my idea was to install botnet-trojans into other machines than
terminals to have more chances to hack for more important things at the terminals.
with a huge botnet in background. especially for the levels -7 and up.
my biggest botnet was linked with 5 terminals and this was luck imo.
of course there are plenty terminals outhere but in the upper level
im happy if a hack works anyway^^

the new wiki-section is what the cogmind-wiki has needed.
i have some more hacks are missing there but im unsure to add.

and i dont like the name for the section..top 10 hacks...
"hacks they don't want you to know about!" seems to be entirely sufficient.
because now there are more than 10, i have 15 now...and the future will also brings more.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2016, 04:30:38 AM »

Botnets don't give you much of a benefit past the first few, anyway, so not really worth making them so large. If you want other help, assimilate an Operator :)

and i dont like the name for the section..top 10 hacks...
"hacks they don't want you to know about!" seems to be entirely sufficient.
because now there are more than 10, i have 15 now...and the future will also brings more.
Haha, you can take up the obviously sensational approach with the author. I didn't write it :P

And yeah you can ruin it by adding more!
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Qbert911

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2016, 06:39:25 PM »

I updated the link on the main wiki page as per Enno's suggestion (as the number 10 was misleading, even if funny).

I enjoy updating the wiki and would appreciate being told about any unauthorized hacks not presently listed. (hint, hint) :D



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Happylisk

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2016, 07:00:10 PM »

Thanks for working on the wiki!  I always mean to but I'm so lazy.  I have a bunch of lore screenshots I really should upload...
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2016, 08:19:39 PM »

Thanks Qbert911!

Certainly guides and helpful tips like that are the best kinds of things to add at this point, since specific content like items, robots, and machines are subject to change (although less and less so as time goes on).
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Sherlockkat

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #59 on: April 14, 2016, 03:42:50 PM »

My first alpha 7 win:

The run was super smooth until -2 wrecked me. I had already hacked the exit in -2, but got caught in a series of stasis traps with hunters and grunts for company. It was clear that I was going to lose most of my equipment, so I did the sensible thing and stuffed my good prototype flight equipment into the inventory for later use in access. I then spent rest of my time in -2 hunting for a good power supply mostly naked except for a few processors which survived everything. I ne'er managed to lose those hunters and the swarmers that joined the party later. But, you have a such deep health pool by the time you hit -2 that you can just explore while taking damage as long as you know where the exit is. Finally, found a quantum reactor and beelined to the exit with about 40% of my core left!!

-1 wasn't bad. RNG was merciful. I didn't find any good equipment. But I found an energy cycler and the exit soon after. Spent some time looking for a weapon to blow through the shell and found a micro-nuke. By the way, the micro-nuke launcher does zero damage to the reinforced walls guarded by those behemoths. I would have won a previous run if I that would have worked.

Spoiler:  Score/15141 (click to show/hide)

I think I have hit upon a decent stealth setup which lets me clear research more or less consistently:

i) Decent propulsion: Speed of 25~35. Flight is the best. Jumping over civilian bots is very useful for losing enemies in tight corridors. You outrun all the walking/hovering robots anyway. The only trouble comes from swarmers. I avoid them like the plague.

ii) Decent hackware: anywhere between +40 to +60 to hacks seems good. System shields are nice but not critical. My favorite hacks are Access(Main), Garrison seals, Index(Terminals), Inventory(Components), Manifests and Trojan(Track). Hacking is my primary means for getting ahead of the food clock. Garrison seals delays programmer dispatch and access(main) obviously cuts down pointless exploration and getting into trouble. I rarely see programmer dispatches. I think I saw two in this game and I was gone before they found me.

iii) Semi-decent sensor setup : Optical arrays lets me see far and sensor arrays let me see around corners. That's more or less all I need to avoid immediate trouble.

iv) A mid-game thermal cannon: lets me burrow through walls with no matter cost. This has saved my ass more than once. You can get a sense of the local level layout by watching civilian traffic and figure out which walls to blow through. I have avoided some major thoroughfares in research via this method. Lot less messier than launchers.

v) A decent launcher: More of a security blanket, useful to deal with swarmers. I avoid using it as much as possible.

vi) An optional melee weapon in case you need matter.

The general plan is hack the exit, beeline to it and pick up stuff on the way. Works like a charm. More or less.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 03:53:51 PM by Sherlockkat »
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Decker

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2016, 06:46:07 PM »

Congrats for your win, Sherlockkat!

I agree that having a thermal cannon is very useful. It's sometimes hard to find the nova cannon you need to punch through the walls in Research, though, so having launchers handy is still useful.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2016, 06:55:23 PM »

Wow, another Alpha 7 victory, and a really fast one!

Spent some time looking for a weapon to blow through the shell and found a micro-nuke. By the way, the micro-nuke launcher does zero damage to the reinforced walls guarded by those behemoths. I would have won a previous run if I that would have worked.
That's right, those are blast doors. If you have a Structural Scanner you can get the full analysis on them and see that they are incredibly reinforced against EX damage. The easiest way to get through is either with a powerful TH cannon, or simply crit your way through it with any regular guns/cannons. Most melee weapons can also bring it down.

The only trouble comes from swarmers. I avoid them like the plague.
The S-43 variant has a fitting name, don't you think? ;)

iv) A mid-game thermal cannon: lets me burrow through walls with no matter cost. This has saved my ass more than once. You can get a sense of the local level layout by watching civilian traffic and figure out which walls to blow through. I have avoided some major thoroughfares in research via this method. Lot less messier than launchers.
Good tactic. I should do that more often. I do it occasionally, but don't usually have sensors, and end up in those thoroughfares, pull out the launcher, and oh man it gets tough from there as more patrols show up :P

(This is with a combat build, though...)

It's sometimes hard to find the nova cannon you need to punch through the walls in Research, though, so having launchers handy is still useful.
That's the kind of thing a friendlier fabrication system will be able to fix. It might make things too easy for experts who always know exactly what they want, but we'll see...
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Sherlockkat

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2016, 07:37:23 PM »

Quote
Congrats for your win, Sherlockkat!
Thank you :). I have got the hang of speed runs, I think. Gonna switch it up to combat builds and try to win those now. Speed is so much fun and faster to play though. It took me 55 mins to escape. I can barely make it to research in that time if I am playing combat. And about 15 mins to die after that.

Spent some time looking for a weapon to blow through the shell and found a micro-nuke. By the way, the micro-nuke launcher does zero damage to the reinforced walls guarded by those behemoths. I would have won a previous run if I that would have worked.
That's right, those are blast doors. If you have a Structural Scanner you can get the full analysis on them and see that they are incredibly reinforced against EX damage. The easiest way to get through is either with a powerful TH cannon, or simply crit your way through it with any regular guns/cannons. Most melee weapons can also bring it down.
Yup. It sucked. :).

Quote
It's sometimes hard to find the nova cannon you need to punch through the walls in Research, though, so having launchers handy is still useful.
That's the kind of thing a friendlier fabrication system will be able to fix. It might make things too easy for experts who always know exactly what they want, but we'll see...
Do you need a nova cannon? I have punched my way through research walls with hvy plasma cannons, hvy neutron cannons and neutron cannons, all of which you can find in factory.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 07:39:38 PM by Sherlockkat »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Alpha 7/7b Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« Reply #63 on: April 18, 2016, 11:03:58 PM »

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It's sometimes hard to find the nova cannon you need to punch through the walls in Research, though, so having launchers handy is still useful.
That's the kind of thing a friendlier fabrication system will be able to fix. It might make things too easy for experts who always know exactly what they want, but we'll see...
Do you need a nova cannon? I have punched my way through research walls with hvy plasma cannons, hvy neutron cannons and neutron cannons, all of which you can find in factory.
Nope. You can easily get through Research walls even with mid-tier cannons. Maybe Decker is obsessed with heavy firepower guaranteed to melt anything instantly? :P
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