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Author Topic: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!  (Read 7071 times)

Adraius

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Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« on: September 02, 2015, 04:17:35 PM »

Victory - today, my treading, no-holds-barred combat Cogmind has reached the surface!  It was an agonizing ascent - my carefully cultivated loadout and hacking-suppressed alert level saw me all the way through the Factory, but it all started to fall apart in Research.  There weren't enough terminals to keep my threat down, and with no armor plates to be found anywhere, I piled more and more combat utilities into my utility slots, badly overtaxing my neglected power slots.  Without armor, more and more fire fell upon my vulnerable utilities and weapons.

Finally, after accumulating around 30% corruption fighting through sublevel 2, I was forced to ditch everything and run.  I ran blindly in the direction I had seen Programmers arrive from, guessing at corner after corner.   Fate smiled upon me: after a few minutes scrambling for survival, I found the access to sublevel 1!  I looked at my inventory: three reactors and a kinetic weapon.  I hadn't expected to actually make it this far.  I quickly looted an energy weapon from an adjoining room, took a deep breath, and entered sublevel 1 buck naked.

On sublevel 1, I rebuilt what I could.  I found a set of treads and fought off a few Programmers, looted what I could, and kept fighting.  When a Sentry and several Programmers found me together, once again I had to drop everything and run.  I found more weapons, turned to fight, and won.  Slowly, I began to reconstitute: heat sinks, targeting computers, target analyzers, a force field, heavy armor, heavy treads... and weapons.  Oh my, the weapons on sublevel 1!

By the time I found the exit, I was the absolute ruler of sublevel 1.  My 30-part-strong inventory was filled to the brim with the machinery of war.  The robots I encountered didn't even merit the unveiling of my various launchers, which I didn't need to fire the entire level.  I brushed aside the guardians of the exit with ease and made my ascent.

My Cogmind, triumphant on the surface, firing his shiny, mint-condition launchers in victory:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thanks for the amazing experience, Kyzrati!

EDIT: here's the score sheet for people interested

Code: [Select]
Cogmind - Alpha 3b

Name: Adraius

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

 Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (333)     1665
Value Destroyed (13894)    13894
Prototype IDs (15)         300
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (2000)               2000
              TOTAL SCORE: 22359

 Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             1038/1600
Matter                     300/300
Energy                     1040/1040
System Corruption          0%
Temperature                Cool (0)
Location                   Surface

 Parts
-------
Power (4)
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
  Particle Reactor
  Improved Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (2)
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility (14)
  Advanced Cooling System
  Large Storage Unit
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Large Storage Unit
  Advanced Cooling System
  Advanced Force Field
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Large Storage Unit
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Target Analyzer
Weapon (5)
  Multirail
  Multirail
  HERF Cannon
  Enhanced Quantum Rifle
  Compact HERF Cannon

 Inventory
-----------
Quantum Reactor
Quantum Reactor
Improved Quantum Reactor
Improved Heavy Treads
Improved Heavy Treads
Gamma Rifle
Gamma Rifle
Enhanced Nova Cannon
Railgun
Multirail
Ragnarok Missile Launcher
Guided Micro-nuke Launcher
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Cooling System
Layered Heavy Armor Plating
Reactive Heavy Armor
Reflective Heavy Armor
Advanced Hacking Suite
System Restoration Module
System Restoration Module
Multirail
Multirail

 Peak State
------------
Power
  Improved Quantum Reactor
  Particle Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
  Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
  Improved Heavy Treads
Utility
  Advanced Target Analyzer
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  High-capacity Storage Unit
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Large Storage Unit
  Advanced Targeting Computer
  Advanced Heat Sink
  Advanced Force Field
  Advanced Cooling System
  Large Storage Unit
  Layered Heavy Armor Plating
  Large Storage Unit
  Advanced Cooling System
Weapon
  Compact HERF Cannon
  Enhanced Quantum Rifle
  HERF Cannon
  Multirail
  Multirail
[Rating: 156]

 Favorites
-----------
Power                      Improved Ion Engine
  Engine                   Improved Ion Engine
  Power Core               Micro Fission Core
  Reactor                  Light Particle Reactor
Propulsion                 Light Treads
  Treads                   Light Treads
  Hover Unit               Improved Anti-Grav System
Utility                    Large Storage Unit
  Device                   Advanced Heat Sink
  Storage                  Large Storage Unit
  Processor                Advanced Targeting Computer
  Hackware                 Hacking Suite
  Protection               Layered Light Armor Plating
Weapon                     Railgun
  Energy Gun               Gamma Rifle
  Energy Cannon            Heavy Ion Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Railgun
  Ballistic Cannon         Fusion Cannon
  Launcher                 Grenade Launcher

 Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed          16
  Worker                   25
  Builder                  21
  Tunneler                 3
  Hauler                   28
  Recycler                 30
  Operator                 1
  Watcher                  6
  Swarmer                  34
  Grunt                    91
  Brawler                  5
  Duelist                  5
  Protector                1
  Sentry                   30
  Hunter                   27
  Programmer               24
  Behemoth                 2
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           11
  Combat Bots Only         8
Matter Collected           10206
  Salvage Created          19780
Parts Attached             470
  Power                    60
  Propulsion               34
  Utility                  228
  Weapon                   148
Parts Lost                 124
  Power                    11
  Propulsion               5
  Utility                  51
  Weapon                   57
Average Slot Usage (%)     90
  Naked Turns              99
Spaces Moved               6582
  Fastest Speed (%)        200
  Slowest Speed (%)        5
  Overloaded Moves         0
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           4
  Cave-ins Triggered       0
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             196
  Greatest Overweight (x)  65
  Average Overweight (x)   2
Largest Inventory          32
  Most Items Carried       32
Core Damage Taken          2817
Volleys Fired              700
  Largest                  5
  Hottest                  412
Shots Fired                2392
  Gun                      1675
  Cannon                   682
  Launcher                 35
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  1045
  Thermal                  829
  Explosive                25
  Electromagnetic          493
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 0
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           42337
  Projectiles              39351
  Explosions               2973
  Melee                    0
  Ramming                  13
Highest Temperature        342
  Average Temperature      72
  Shutdowns                0
  Energy Bleed             1
  Interference             3
  Matter Decay             0
  Short Circuit            1
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         30
  Message Errors           70
  Parts Rejected           14
  Data loss (map)          69
  Data loss (database)     41
  Misfires                 12
  Misdirections            24
  Targeting Errors         72
  Weapon Failures          19
Haulers Intercepted        28
Robots Corrupted           12
Robots Melted              29
Tactical Retreats          27
Communications Jammed      0
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             10
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machine Familiarity        30
  Terminals                22
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          4
  Recycling Units          2
  Scanalyzers              2
Machines Hacked            30
  Terminals                22
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          4
  Recycling Units          2
  Scanalyzers              2
Total Hacks                109
  Successful               37
  Failed                   72
  Catastrophic             33
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   28
  Terminals                79
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          16
  Recycling Units          7
  Scanalyzers              7
Terminal Hacks             20
  Record                   0
  Part Schematic           0
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        0
  Open Door                1
  Level Access Points      1
  Branch Access Points     0
  Emergency Access Points  2
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Alert Level              1
  Unreport Threat          10
  Locate Traps             0
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Trap           0
  Dispatch Records         1
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Recall Investigation     0
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              2
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         2
Hacking Detections         38
  Full Trace Events        13
  Feedback Events          2
  Feedback Corruption      2
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   1
  Parts Built              0
  Part Fabrication Matter  0
  Part Fabrication Time    0
Parts Repaired             5
  Part Repair Time         150
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Scanalyzed           2
  Part Schematics Acquired 1
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             1
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              0
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               22
  Largest Group            4
  Highest-Rated Group      44
  Highest-Rated Ally       44
Total Orders               16
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     4
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  12
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               9
  Total Damage             297
  Kills                    1
Allies Corrupted           1
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             1032
  Average Influence        265
Maximum Alert Level        3
  Low Security (%)         54
  Level 1                  25
  Level 2                  10
  Level 3                  9
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          47
  Investigation            11
  Extermination            16
  Reinforcement            15
  Assault                  5
Exploration Rate (%)       23
  Regions Visited          12
Turns Passed               17920
  Depth 11                 92
  Depth 10                 1053
  Depth 9                  1501
  Depth 8                  1203
  Depth 7                  1532
  Depth 6                  1134
  Depth 5                  1705
  Depth 4                  1338
  Depth 3                  798
  Depth 2                  3498
  Depth 1                  4066
  Scrapyard                92
  Materials                2368
  Factory                  5709
  Research                 4296
  Access                   4066
  Storage                  1389

 Prototype IDs
---------------
Improved Quantum Reactor
Advanced Beam Rifle
Improved Heavy Laser
Improved EM Shotgun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Enhanced Coil Gun
Helical Railgun
Mini Assault Cannon
Precision Rocket Launcher
Ragnarok Missile Launcher
Guided Micro-nuke Launcher
Improved Matter Compressor
Beam Splitter
Experimental Core Analyzer
Advanced Particle Charger

 Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

 Game
------
Seed: 1441148486
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 422 min
Sessions: 12
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 34
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 1
Font: 16/Dina
Map View: 90x50


X=9573834226319296648829912221
986659166119888898855818559451
891188848868818691868816596454
212515195168119681441995856511
181898216818688219665156115661
441416816221558818868856214565
955168888441569691284215294811
648569466989888881866991969414
689816966851198189898885621615
556856651159656881818889888881
986584559854865511696856985185
812889885881118589888815885811
888889888881885589911954888881
185845488884188181885881888884
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148595518659116511188965481114
898146529194418848199191616968
116826655926485669626826191614
6196141286541596851218410

EDIT2: an oddity I noticed - I definitely destroyed *at least* three Behemoths this run, and I'm 90% certain I killed five.  Odd that it says I only killed two...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 11:31:45 PM by Adraius »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 07:07:56 PM »

Woohoo, congratulations! Despite the couple times you had to go naked, comebacks are totally fair game when the going gets tough--modularity and adapting to the situation is what it's all about when you're Cogmind. And WOW you ran the entire game with only the original 2 propulsion slots. That's really brave since it means you've essentially forced yourself into being slow and heavy the whole time. Thanks for sharing!

Haha, awesome box shot :P

The weapons are pretty deadly once you get that high, and those aren't even the best in the game :)

EDIT2: an oddity I noticed - I definitely destroyed *at least* three Behemoths this run, and I'm 90% I killed five.  Odd that it says I only killed two...
My guess is you took them out via system corruption (?). Those kills aren't currently attributed to you, they just appear as part of the "Robots Corrupted" tally. Bringing robots down through other indirect means, such as traps or collateral damage from machine explosions, is also not added to your total.
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jimmijamjams

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 09:58:01 PM »

Congratulations!!!!

I knew someone would do it eventually!

Oh my, the weapons on sublevel 1!

This!  This is my favourite aspect of the higher levels!  I still haven't discovered them all, but I'm having fun trying :)
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Shobalk

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 10:05:19 PM »

Congrats!
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Adraius

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 12:12:16 AM »

Haha, awesome box shot :P
Chromehounds was a great game with not enough polish.  I dream of someday seeing a high-budget game bring 'realistic' modular combat robots into the limelight, but for now I can play Cogmind and pretend. =)

And WOW you ran the entire game with only the original 2 propulsion slots. That's really brave since it means you've essentially forced yourself into being slow and heavy the whole time.
I've always ran my combat builds this way - unless you're aiming for a hybrid build from the start, I guess I don't see much point in the flexibility.  The only time I'd transition away from being a brawler is when forced to, and I'd rather make that point harder to reach by investing more in utility slots than building flexible with propulsion.  More than one tread doesn't really get you much in my - admittedly limited - experimentation; it makes it practical to seek cover when caught out in the open from a bit farther away, but the difference in distance covered isn't very significant, and you're still far slower than pretty much anything that matters.  If you want more redundancy, that's what Storage Units are for.

I will say the boost to durability was a massive boost to the 'all treads, all the time' option, though.  Before, I would be forced to use legs or other methods of propulsion intermittently, which took away the unique benefit of committing oneself to this sort of build.  The straight doubling of their durability was significantly more than expected, but boy am I grateful!

I'll also note that I was operating off of only two power slots until sublevel 1 - THAT was a terrible idea!  It only worked as long as it did due to armor occupying utility slots that might go to energy-sucking combat utilities - I knew I'd made a mistake the moment I ran low on armor and began replacing it with more Targeting Computers and Target Analyzers, and I was afraid it would be a fatal mistake when I looked at the upkeep on 'advanced' combat utilities like Cloaking Devices and Particle Chargers - ouch!

The weapons are pretty deadly once you get that high, and those aren't even the best in the game
0.o

And I thought I was on the top of the pile with my [9*] Enh. Nova Cannon and [10] Multirail!  Would the 'Alien Tech Identified' score category have anything to do with this? =P

My guess is you took them out via system corruption (?). Those kills aren't currently attributed to you, they just appear as part of the "Robots Corrupted" tally.
Huh, must have been.  I do remember some of them falling apart rather suddenly/before their core got overly low.  I bet that's why I kept getting huge piles of virtually pristine gear from them, too!  Every time I looted one of them, I felt like an Ice Age human who'd just killed a woolly mammoth and would be feeding off the kill for months!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 03:35:45 PM by Adraius »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2015, 01:23:01 AM »

Haha, awesome box shot :P
Chromehounds was a great game with not enough polish.  I dream of someday seeing a high-budget game bring 'realistic' modular combat robots into the limelight, but for now I can play Cogmind and pretend. =)
MWO isn't a bad alternative.

I will say the boost to durability was a massive boost to the 'all treads, all the time' option, though.  Before, I would be forced to use legs or other methods of propulsion intermittently, which took away the unique benefit of committing oneself to this sort of build.  The straight doubling of their durability was significantly more than expected, but boy am I grateful!
It was more than originally planned, too :P.

I was thinking +25%, then when it came time to implement I decided to go all out with it on the premise that if you're going to commit to being slow and fighting everything, you really can't be worrying too much about propulsion in the meantime, not to mention you have a 100% chance of triggering traps (though you're slow enough that you'll often see them first)--how did traps figure into your run?

For my own previous combat builds I've tended to add a couple extra propulsion slots and mostly rely on legs since they're easier to restore, and I sometimes prefer the flexibility of being a little faster. Legs also got a nice integrity boost in Alpha 3 as well, so I may still want to use them, we'll see. Apparently the 2x treads is valid as well.

Keeping only two power slots that late is certainly pretty dangerous. There are some really awesome power sources, but as you found some of the cool utilities drain power fast. I think with a lot of power sources and the right utilities you might even be able to make yourself deadly (and nearly invulnerable) even without relying on much armor.

The weapons are pretty deadly once you get that high, and those aren't even the best in the game
0.o

And I thought I was on the top of the pile with my [9*] Enh. Nova Cannon and [10] Multirail!  Would the 'Alien Tech Identified' score category have anything to do with this? =P
Alien tech is not yet available, but it will be ;)

There is a good collection of rating-10 (and *10!) parts in the game, but none are accessible, nor will they be found just lying around for the taking. You apparently took down a Colossus to get that Multirail--I believe it's the only highest-rated part you can actually obtain, and that's the only way to get it.

If you can power them and take the heat, Enh. Nova Cannons are a blast :D

I bet that's why I kept getting huge piles of virtually pristine gear from them, too!  Every time I looted one of them, I felt like an Ice Age human who'd just killed a wholly mammoth and would be feeding off the kill for months!
Haha, exactly. That's what jimmijamjams did once when he reached -1. Corrupting robots is a great way to take their gear; corrupting Behemoths is a great way to treat yourself to a one-stop shopping spree. I started trying that on my last full run when I had the chance. Good tactic, and probably even better now.
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zxc

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2015, 05:26:13 AM »

Nicely done  ;D

And WOW you ran the entire game with only the original 2 propulsion slots. That's really brave since it means you've essentially forced yourself into being slow and heavy the whole time.

Bit of theory-crafting: if you're going the route of combat and heavy propulsion (treads), then you can skimp on extra propulsion slots to unlock more utilities and other slots. This I think is one of the most attractive aspects of running a combat build. With flight or hover, you want at least three propulsion slots, and often more.
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Happylisk

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2015, 07:00:52 AM »

What a win!  It gives me hope that I'll win a combat cogmind in the not too distant future.

I wonder if Behemoth looting via EMP on -1 is the way go for a combat build (at least for now until even more badass weapons are added to the game via the branches). 
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zxc

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 08:24:08 AM »

What a win!  It gives me hope that I'll win a combat cogmind in the not too distant future.

I wonder if Behemoth looting via EMP on -1 is the way go for a combat build (at least for now until even more badass weapons are added to the game via the branches).

I think if you can even kill a behemoth you might be set already. Haven't tried myself.
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Adraius

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2015, 10:13:47 AM »

What a win!  It gives me hope that I'll win a combat cogmind in the not too distant future.

I wonder if Behemoth looting via EMP on -1 is the way go for a combat build (at least for now until even more badass weapons are added to the game via the branches).

Very slight spoilers ahead:

The loot from them is amazing, but Behemoths aren't so common on sublevel 1 that you can build a strategy around them.  The stockpiles hold a good number of goodies (more than Research at least), but what really saved me once I got to the final level was the amazing number of Transporters carrying parts around.  I went from naked to fully kitted out just by staying in one corridor and killing the constant stream of Transporters that came through.  YMMV, though; my sublevel 1 map was very oddly shaped, and I spawned right at the narrow connection point between the two 'lobes' of the map.

I would, however, recommend avoiding weapons with a negative salvage modifier unless you're out of other options.  Replacement parts are very important for combat builds as attrition is inevitable, and every time you pull out a rocket launcher or assault cannon, you're essentially poisoning your future efforts, IMO.  That's why I didn't use my launchers the whole map - they were strictly for cases where I was outnumbered to the point I'd take massive damage if I didn't use AoE weaponry.  I never ran into the massive horde I feared.

Going EM-heavy for even more salvage is an interesting strategy, though.  If you try it out, please share!

I think if you can even kill a behemoth you might be set already. Haven't tried myself.
It was somewhere in Research IIRC, not Access (a.k.a. sublevel 1, the name is on the high score list so I figure I can say it), but I one-shot a Behemoth! =D I think I may have crit it's core with a bunch of cannons amp'd up with Target Analyzers.  I used to think those utilities weren't worth using over other options - this run really changed my mind.  Equipping them in support of Targeting Computers they work wonders, as long as you equip weapons that can take advantage of them.

EDIT:
Nicely done  ;D

And WOW you ran the entire game with only the original 2 propulsion slots. That's really brave since it means you've essentially forced yourself into being slow and heavy the whole time.

Bit of theory-crafting: if you're going the route of combat and heavy propulsion (treads), then you can skimp on extra propulsion slots to unlock more utilities and other slots. This I think is one of the most attractive aspects of running a combat build. With flight or hover, you want at least three propulsion slots, and often more.
Oh yes, definitely.  I'm pressed for every utility slot I get get until around sublevel 4 or so.  It's amazing how little use guns are without the right utilities to make them work; I was playing tired for part of the run, and because I was very low on power generation, sometimes I'd turn off ALL my combat utilities to regen power - when I forgot to turn them on again before the next battle, it was immediately apparent simply from the volley's poor performance that something was very off.

Something else I haven't emphasized is the importance of hacking - I was carrying around two hacking utilities for helping me purge threat, and I was able to increase the number to four when I found an Imp Matter Compressor that doubled my mass storage, making it feasible to afford the 80 mass swap penalty at each Terminal.  I don't have a firm enough grasp of the game to state this with high confidence, but I suspect that once threat gets over a certain point you enter a feedback loop of sorts, where killing robots sends more after you, and killing them gets more sent after you, accelerating to bigger kill teams at shorter intervals until you die.  In fact, one of my fears with treads is that I'm so slow that, by the time I've crawled back and forth over a large battlefield looting the dead, another kill team has already found me.  It's been those sort of chain-battles that have ended many of my runs in the past.  This time, I'd estimate I was able to keep threat at low security/level 1 until at least sublevel 4, maybe even 3.  It spiked after that, but as you can see, I never got higher than alert level 3, and I was killing everything.

Kyzrati, how much did you rely on hacking on your combat run that went to Access?

I have more I want to say, but it'll have to wait until after work. =)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 11:00:51 PM by Adraius »
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Adraius

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2015, 04:38:37 PM »

I don't know what double-posting etiquette is around here, but it's been awhile, so I'm going to stick the rest of this in its own post.

Haha, awesome box shot :P
Chromehounds was a great game with not enough polish.  I dream of someday seeing a high-budget game bring 'realistic' modular combat robots into the limelight, but for now I can play Cogmind and pretend. =)
MWO isn't a bad alternative.
If you recall, I used to be playing Cogmind on an older laptop - I actually got a new one just a couple weeks ago (with numpad!), so I was able to try Mechwarrior Online out!  Unfortunately, I found the mechs to be really ungainly and frustrating to control - a first for me, normally I dislike all the mech games that having them flying around like they weigh nothing at all.  Perhaps I need more time to get the control scheme down, but in any case, the level of customization I'm after is significantly more than what even MWO provides.  The Early Access game M.A.V. is basically a bit-for-bit indie Chromehounds, and I'm hoping it will someday be solid enough for me to jump into.

I will say the boost to durability was a massive boost to the 'all treads, all the time' option, though.  Before, I would be forced to use legs or other methods of propulsion intermittently, which took away the unique benefit of committing oneself to this sort of build.  The straight doubling of their durability was significantly more than expected, but boy am I grateful!
It was more than originally planned, too :P.

I was thinking +25%, then when it came time to implement I decided to go all out with it on the premise that if you're going to commit to being slow and fighting everything, you really can't be worrying too much about propulsion in the meantime, not to mention you have a 100% chance of triggering traps (though you're slow enough that you'll often see them first)--how did traps figure into your run?
Honestly, I was expecting an increase of only 20-40% - again, not that I'm complaining.  However, I was basing my expectations on my experience (and troubles) running a flying, stealthy Cogmind, where finding more flight units was a near-constant issue. (I suspect part of the issue was me just not having the right playstyle/strategy for stealth) With treads being the their 'equivalent' on the far end of the spectrum, I found it reasonable enough they should be hard to constantly acquire and maintain.  But I'm perfectly happy with this duality where the slow, brawl-y treads can take an incredible pounding and keep on ticking. =P It should be whatever fits your vision of the game.

Traps had a pretty minor effect overall - I often used a Structural Scanner, and I'm slow enough that usually the scanner and/or my baseline sensors would detect at least one trap in an array before I triggered any of them, and I'd know to swing clear or destroy them with explosives.  I'm a bit surprised that I was never once blocked from going in a direction I really needed to, though.  I'm not sure if that means the placement of line and block arrays should be upped or not - I didn't fear them like I did minefields, and they don't have the ability to hit you before you can see them like singles at doorways can, but I think too many of them could be very frustrating, especially as players won't always have an explosive weapon handy.  My only notable experience with traps this run was using an explosive weapon to clear a few Ambush traps in a line array, but for some silly reason I decided to assume that they were all gone after one shot, and stepped in a tile I didn't explicitly know was clear - but I was actually rewarded for it with one of the new little 'events' you've put in!

My first Alpha 3 run had a much different experience with traps, though - once I wandered into a minefield array of the traps that damage and sever parts.  IIRC, the first one severed a storage unit, which made a big mess.  Then, when I stepped a couple squares over to retrieve a part, I triggered another one!  At that point I decided the minefield was probably thin enough to continue forward... bad assumption.  I think I got hit another couple times before I made it through.  In hindsight, I should have just stood still and waited for my sensors to identify the rest after recovering my parts from the second trap.  I had a similar experience trying to press through a minefield of EMP traps - yay, more corruption!

Later on, I lost the whole run, which was shaping up great, to a chute trap that I had already identified. >.< Feature request: can we please require a confirmation press before stepping on traps we know about, similar to how collisions work?  Anyway, I had gone for a few too many utilities at the expense of weapon slots, so once... down there, I didn't have quite enough firepower or speed to escape.  Again, in hindsight, I might have been able to get through either by kiting (I'm not used to being faster than things with my treads), or by dropping everything and rushing past, but I was too curious watching how they devoured my poor Cogmind. =P

I've never once intentionally used traps to my own benefit, and given my ability to avoid them via other methods (namely, being crazy slow and using up one slot on a Structural Scanner, which provides at least some other benefits) and their generally non-catastrophic effects, I felt I had better things to do with my hacking attempts and other resources than working to locate/convert them.  Traps were a net difficulty increase for me, but not a huge one, and perhaps overall not quite enough of one, though I should really do a few more runs before I say that.  But they did work very well as a way to increase environment variation and interactivity - you can call them a success on that count in my book.  In fact, I feel more features that do this sort of thing would be very welcome.  I understand the ideal of keeping environmental complexity low, but I think there's still room for more - I vote for more features in this vein as development continues. =)

I think with a lot of power sources and the right utilities you might even be able to make yourself deadly (and nearly invulnerable) even without relying on much armor.
I was thinking the same thoughts after killing a bunch of Hunters and getting my hands on their Imp Cloaking Devices in Research, but obviously I didn't have the power to run those at the time.  As you might have been able to tell, I usually skimp on power slots as well as propulsion in my ruthless pursuit of utility slots, but when I reached the final evolution, I finally felt like I couldn't utilize even more very effectively, so I went with x2 new power slots to ensure I wouldn't have power issues on sublevel 1.  Thanks to that, I got to try out an Adv Force Field in all it's glory.  I think a few good Cloaking Devices, especially combined with one of those, would make for a very formidable defense.   I hesitate to try it, however, because it would necessitate investing in a 3rd and possibly even 4th power slot fairly early on, and then hoping you run into the utilities to harness that power.  Plus, replacements would be a big problem when attrition eventually takes its toll.  The plug-and-play nature of armor makes it both more accessible and less risky, in my experience.  I'll have to try it out at some point, but I'll be nervous taking that build into pitched battle - plus, relying on those will make me piss my pants even more when a Brawler comes around a corner at close range!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 10:59:27 PM by Adraius »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Combat Cogmind Reaches the Surface!
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2015, 08:54:26 PM »

Kyzrati, how much did you rely on hacking on your combat run that went to Access?
You're right about the feedback loop. It's a dangerous proposition, especially for now where you have no branch exits in the latter half of the game. The idea is that later on if you run into too much trouble you can skip off to a branch and lose some of that heat. (In Alpha 3 there is a new way to completely reset your security level, but I doubt anyone's figured that one out yet. There will be an in-game tip on how it works later.)

Despite being quite destructive, I've been doing less and less Purging over time. What brought me down (back in Alpha 2c) was simply being underpowered towards the end and getting unlucky in meeting multiple patrols over a smaller space.

I do, however, always hack Terminals when I see them, and am tending towards using more direct hacks for extra intel, more "going with the flow" than saying I absolutely need a certain thing. (I only make an exception for Purges if I've been especially destructive, but even then I don't mind being at security level 2 for a while.)

I try to carry around at least one hacking utility to swap in when important, but quite often it ends up getting dropped in favor of something more combat-oriented :/

Target Analyzers are awesome when used properly; my dream build is a bunch of analyzers combined with an array of fast-firing kinetic guns.

I'm looking forward to trying this week's seed soon--I've yet to play a full Alpha 3 run.

I don't know what double-posting etiquette is around here, but it's been awhile, so I'm going to stick the rest of this in its own post.
By all means! I think double-posting is fine so long as it's adding a lot more to the discussion (e.g. your second huge post here :P).

MWO: They keep adding stuff to the maps and my old laptop can't handle it anymore (I get around 20 fps now, down from 30 :/), so I'm out for now. I think the controls are done pretty well--way better than the early beta. You might also just need some better mechs--if you've just started playing I'm guessing what you have is pretty crappy. Each mech has its own feel, which will also continue to evolve and improve as you raise your piloting skill (they'll become significantly more responsive, for one). The part customization is still pretty much the same old BT/MT, so yeah it would take a serious indie production to pull off anything more.

But I'm perfectly happy with this duality where the slow, brawl-y treads can take an incredible pounding and keep on ticking. =P It should be whatever fits your vision of the game.
The final balance will come when the world is complete. We need to make sure that you can keep on ticking through a potentially longer game (sometimes without as many replacement parts). So this and other tweaks are edging toward that state. I wanted very early alpha to generally have a more difficult Complex 0b10, since for now that's where much of the game happens.

for some silly reason I decided to assume that they were all gone after one shot, and stepped in a tile I didn't explicitly know was clear - but I was actually rewarded for it with one of the new little 'events' you've put in!
Oh nice ;). Yeah, that's gotten me before, too, while testing--blowing up an area and "assuming" they were all gone :P

Again, in hindsight, I might have been able to get through either by kiting (I'm not used to being faster than things with my treads), or by dropping everything and rushing past, but I was too curious watching how they devoured my poor Cogmind. =P
Yup, they are slow and you'll generally be able to make it out with only minor sacrifices. Hint: There are also multiple potential benefits down there.

Feature request: can we please require a confirmation press before stepping on traps we know about, similar to how collisions work?
Great idea; it shall be done. Identified chute traps especially can be hard to spot ;)

Traps were a net difficulty increase for me, but not a huge one, and perhaps overall not quite enough of one, though I should really do a few more runs before I say that.  But they did work very well as a way to increase environment variation and interactivity - you can call them a success on that count in my book.  In fact, I feel more features that do this sort of thing would be very welcome.  I understand the ideal of keeping environmental complexity low, but I think there's still room for more - I vote for more features in this vein as development continues. =)
Thanks for the rundown on your trap experience. They weren't really intended to increase difficulty, at least not significantly, mostly just to spruce up the environment and provide more tools for players to use, if desired. Once you have a combat build traps may not be all that useful to you, but I can imagine hybrid or fast Cogminds making good use of them to augment otherwise weaker combat capabilities.

relying on those will make me piss my pants even more when a Brawler pops around a corner at close range!
Same! Brawlers are always my primary target ;). I hate those things with a passion because they can knock out sensitive systems first. (I'm glad I added them, though :P)
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