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Author Topic: Going through Waste reshuffles branches  (Read 5016 times)

kiedra

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Going through Waste reshuffles branches
« on: November 17, 2018, 12:36:52 PM »

Hey Kyzrati, I'm really hoping this is intended behaviour and I did not find another weird bug. May wanna have a quick look at the scoresheets, they will show the seed is identical, but when I used a chute on -6 (second run) it reshuffled E to -6, was supposed to be on -4. So basically only seed and route is of interest here.

UPDATE: It is not related to the Chutes. I just played it again, no Waste this time, E is still on -6. Still confused though, as far as I can tell both runs are played on the same game version.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 02:59:18 PM by kiedra »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Going through Waste reshuffles branches
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2018, 05:11:47 PM »

Very strange! I'd like to say it's related to the other seeding issue which was fixed for Beta 8, the one with the schematics etc., but accessibility to branches should be unaffected by that (or anything else that happens during a run, to be honest) since it's all predetermined when you first start the seed.

According to 7.1 data/behavior, the seed FactoryActuatorExpander places Extension on -6, regardless of whether or not you've been through Waste, so that first use of the seed, randomly, is what's different from what it is when seeded manually.

Now that I mention it, there are some cases I need to look into because manually seeding a run as opposed to getting the same seed randomly can have some effects on the content! This is normal/intended, though I'm surprised that the changes are large enough to affect the actual branch depths.

Actually, as a quick test I could turn off the manual seed designation and let the game think the seed I've manually assigned was a random choice, which maybe could end up putting Extension on -4...

...and unfortunately that does not seem to change the results, it's still on -6!

So clearly it should be on -6, and now I'm really curious how you got to it on -4, but I guess we can't investigate further without a save from that run :/

Still not yet sure whether this is a bug or not. Certainly unintended behavior, but it could be caused by something intended which overrides that need, I dunno. I can't think of anything that could cause this since the map depths are determined before anything else, and cannot be changed. Hm.

Interesting to finally have some info coming in from seeded runs, in any case. We have other people referring to old seeds and using those to reach confirmed maps/events, though I don't recall any instances like this.

Going to just have to wait on this on to see if any more info pops up. Sorry for the troubles there xD. If we could have save data from the first run that'd be great, but I guess that's long gone now...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 05:13:35 PM by Kyzrati »
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Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames | Patreon

kiedra

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Re: Going through Waste reshuffles branches
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2018, 10:27:22 PM »

I just remembered that where E is on -4, that was my very first run on beta7.1 after the last on beta5. I have not deinstalled the game, nor ever launched it in between. Could this maybe have caused the issue?

I was wondering, since you are always in the scrapyard, unless you quit right away. Meaning the seed might have generated the world on beta5, but I played it on 7.1
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Kyzrati

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Re: Going through Waste reshuffles branches
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2018, 05:46:55 AM »

Yeah I considered that and really all other options I know about, but saves aren't compatible across those versions. Even a Beta 7 start wouldn't be loaded under 7.1 (the release notes always indicate whether saves are compatible with those from the previous release, and it's pretty rare to have compatibility--that would only possibly happen for very minor updates).

No ideas!
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kiedra

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Re: Going through Waste reshuffles branches
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2018, 08:42:50 AM »

Ok this seems to be a bit weird then, after all it's not a big deal anyway. I'll keep monitoring this however. If this happens again, I'll make sure to provide you with some saves.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Going through Waste reshuffles branches
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2018, 05:02:06 PM »

As usual I'd love to know the reason behind this, for sure :). Not vital, true, but maybe one day we'll know...

Waste (or Garrisons for that matter) shuffling branches really isn't a thing, otherwise we'd definitely have heard about it by now considering how often that's used, not to mention planning out entire runs branch-wise, so there's gotta be some other explanation here.
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