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Author Topic: [Beta 7.2] Scoresheet average stats wrong.  (Read 759 times)

Valguris

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[Beta 7.2] Scoresheet average stats wrong.
« on: December 08, 2018, 02:29:35 PM »

I've noticed that some scoresheet stats are wrong, namely in the first one average temp is way too high
Quote
Highest Temperature        6352
  Average Temperature      4664
I definitely did not sustain these ridiculous temperatures for more than half my run.

In the other scoresheet the average speed seems to be wrong:
Quote
Spaces Moved               2446
  Core                     84
  Treads                   0
  Wheels                   0
  Legs                     0
  Hover                    0
  Flight                   2362
  Fastest Speed (%)        1666
  Average Speed (%)        802
These stats combined with 631 turns run imply that for 326 turns (more than half the turns!) I was not moving! This must be wrong too!

Maybe temp/speed from later in the run are weighted more towards these averages?
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Kyzrati

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Re: [Beta 7.2] Scoresheet average stats wrong.
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2018, 08:25:46 PM »

Well turns are unrelated to average speed, since it only counts moves, not time.

And the temperature value looks like it does because it doesn't include zeroes in that average, in order to actually be meaningful (otherwise we may as well remove it from the scoresheet, because pretty much everyone's average will be 0, given all the turns you go without generating heat!).

Because only positive values at the end of your turn update are averaged in, if you blasted your heat super high like you did here, but spent the rest of your short run (a speed run, apparently) producing no excess heat (as with most speed runs), then this would be a reasonable result :)
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Valguris

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Re: [Beta 7.2] Scoresheet average stats wrong.
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2018, 03:17:42 AM »

Well turns are unrelated to average speed, since it only counts moves, not time.

Let me rephrase. Average speed of 802% combined with 2446 spaces moved tells me I spent ~305 turns on moving. Then, since I know that my run took 631 turns, it follows that 326 turns (more than half!) was spent not moving. And that is definitely wrong.

And the temperature value looks like it does because it doesn't include zeroes in that average, in order to actually be meaningful (otherwise we may as well remove it from the scoresheet, because pretty much everyone's average will be 0, given all the turns you go without generating heat!).

Because only positive values at the end of your turn update are averaged in, if you blasted your heat super high like you did here, but spent the rest of your short run (a speed run, apparently) producing no excess heat (as with most speed runs), then this would be a reasonable result :)

Oh! That makes perfect sense! Although the name "average temperature" is a bit confusing then. It's "average positive temperature", but that name is probably too long and it's still confusing! "Average of positive temperatures" is not confusing?
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Kyzrati

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Re: [Beta 7.2] Scoresheet average stats wrong.
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2018, 04:00:02 AM »

Well turns are unrelated to average speed, since it only counts moves, not time.
Let me rephrase. Average speed of 802% combined with 2446 spaces moved tells me I spent ~305 turns on moving. Then, since I know that my run took 631 turns, it follows that 326 turns (more than half!) was spent not moving. And that is definitely wrong.
I'll look into it.

Oh! That makes perfect sense! Although the name "average temperature" is a bit confusing then. It's "average positive temperature", but that name is probably too long and it's still confusing! "Average of positive temperatures" is not confusing?
Yeah the stat names have to be very short (you can see the maximum length there).
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Kyzrati

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Re: [Beta 7.2] Scoresheet average stats wrong.
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2018, 07:13:02 PM »

I don't see any issues with the move speed average code, which using the same averaging as all other stats and simply adds your current move speed to the pile every time you make a move. (Also not just the code--I just spent a while testing it and it behaves as expected.)

Let me rephrase. Average speed of 802% combined with 2446 spaces moved tells me I spent ~305 turns on moving. Then, since I know that my run took 631 turns, it follows that 326 turns (more than half!) was spent not moving. And that is definitely wrong.
This does seem weird, although I can't prove there's any issue in testing... The averaging looks normal (as does spaces moved).

Perhaps more concerning here is that your scoresheet also says you took 2467 actions compared to 2446 spaces moved, meaning 21 non-move actions, yet (without even examining all possible turn-consuming actions) just firing your launcher and attaching parts was 45 actions. (As a side note, this amounts to 54 turns of non-movement.)

That said, you might have jumped a fair number of robots, which would undercount actions compared to moves (since jumping counts as multiple moves). Anyway, I've added a new score sheet entry for Beta 8 so we can see the jump count as well :)

I've already spent almost two hours exploring this--gotta put it down for now. Maybe more info will turn up one day, especially with Wiz mode and/or (even better) the new score system which will have more details than this.
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Valguris

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Re: [Beta 7.2] Scoresheet average stats wrong.
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2018, 05:30:37 AM »

I don't see any issues with the move speed average code, which using the same averaging as all other stats and simply adds your current move speed to the pile every time you make a move. (Also not just the code--I just spent a while testing it and it behaves as expected.)

This makes me think you're counting average over moves, instead of average over time (I might be totally wrong :P). The formula for average over time (what we think of when we say "average speed") is [distance traveled]/[time spent traveling]. In Cogmind's case you could use the following substitutions:
[distance traveled] = spaces moved
[time spent traveling] = sum of move costs (in TU, not %) divided by 100 (since we want turns, not TU)
to get average number of moves per turn. Multiply it by 100% to get the movespeed%.

Perhaps more concerning here is that your scoresheet also says you took 2467 actions compared to 2446 spaces moved, meaning 21 non-move actions, yet (without even examining all possible turn-consuming actions) just firing your launcher and attaching parts was 45 actions. (As a side note, this amounts to 54 turns of non-movement.)

That said, you might have jumped a fair number of robots, which would undercount actions compared to moves (since jumping counts as multiple moves). Anyway, I've added a new score sheet entry for Beta 8 so we can see the jump count as well :)

I like hopping. These numbers look reasonable to me if we account for hopping.
You'd probably want the number of actions for pickup, drop, detach, (attach is already in), quick attach, detach & drop and wait. And number of spaces hopped over, and number of hops themselves (1 action of hopping could make 2 or MORE moves).
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Kyzrati

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Re: [Beta 7.2] Scoresheet average stats wrong.
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2018, 05:39:03 AM »

This makes me think you're counting average over moves, instead of average over time
Yeah that's exactly what it's averaging, as intended xD

It's not using the standard average speed formula, I just want an average speed per move (and excluding any stationary time as well). I feel this is more meaningful in the context of the game stats.

I like hopping. These numbers look reasonable to me if we account for hopping.
You'd probably want the number of actions for pickup, drop, detach, (attach is already in), quick attach, detach & drop and wait.
Right, all those will be coming in the score system revamp's full action matrix by depth and/or map etc.
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