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[Decker]

Still don't know what password you're referring to! The only password that relates to Extension is found within Extension itself.

... what good is the password given by Data Miner then?

It would be hilarious if you shot the machine before completion xD

Been there, done that.

[Kyzrati]

Still don't know what password you're referring to! The only password that relates to Extension is found within Extension itself.

... what good is the password given by Data Miner then?

There are three codes given by Data Miner: One indicates it applies to Warlord, and the other two apply to God Mode and the gate to Recycling. None of these things are related to Extension.

It would be hilarious if you shot the machine before completion xD

Been there, done that.

My favorite is when that happens while visiting the Data Miner!

[Decker]

There are three codes given by Data Miner: One indicates it applies to Warlord, and the other two apply to God Mode and the gate to Recycling. None of these things are related to Extension.

OK. I'm thoroughly confused at this point. I thought MAIN.C was in Extension, and that MAIN.C was actually the mainframe computer there. I do have the password for Recycling and the one for God Mode, but I missed the one for Warlord.

I noticed there's a log containing the dialogues in the scores folder. Not for the current game, though. That's helpful for reviewing the lore. I'm going to quote from my last game.

Data Miner: I'm the Data Miner, and I've been given permission
  to aid you with a little knowledge.
Find what you need on the terminals, then be on your way because
  masking your presence is increasingly difficult.
Connecting with ORACLE Interface...
Current location identified: Data Miner
World map updated.
Connecting with ORACLE Interface... <x3>
Data Miner: I've just received further instructions.
God Mode is nearly complete and we think you might be able to
  put it to better use than Warlord, so if you see an
  opportunity, hack it and enter \\64AM to gain control via the
  back door I've installed.

I guess that's the password for God Mode. Unfortunately I don't have anything else in the log file related to data miner. If the password was from a terminal and it's not a one-time use, then I have it on my personal info file (\\FN3D or \\A6RL). Otherwise I'm screwed for my current game as I didn't re-read the terminal content, which I assumed to be fixed.

Zhirov: Welcome! I've been wondering if you'd stop by.
I know you're in a hurry to reach the surface, so I won't delay
  you here with endless questions.
Besides, I need to determine how to destroy or reset MAIN.C as
  soon as possible, and you being out there causing it trouble
  happen to be the perfect distraction.
I may have some things lying around that will be of help to you.
  Take what you need, and good luck.

The bit about resetting or destroying MAIN.C led me to believe he was talking about storming the mainframe in Extension.

Take God Mode, for example, because nothing gets the creative
  juices flowing like a good war.
Our new friend is going to roll right over whatever MAIN.C's
  been working on. Did you check him out yet? Beautiful, eh?
Well, prepare to be surprised then, because that one here is
  fake, ha!
The real one will truly blow you away. Okay, maybe not you...
  sorry, poor figure of speech.
We've been leaking the word about God Mode's greatness and
  waiting for MAIN.C to finally attack to see what kind of force
  he could bring to bear.
Just as soon as our little experiment here is over, I'll
  personally lead our real force in an assault to take upper
  0b10.
You're welcome to join the party. Up to you, though.
Surely you understand the value of being yourself?

So the attack is the actual experiment. But Warlord says he'll lead the assault once the experiment is over. That implies the player should wait around until the assault has been defeated! The bit about joining the party could be interpreted either to help to defeat the assault as well as to join Warlord once it's over.

 

[Kyzrati]

I think you just need to read more of the basic lore, the terminal records, to figure out what's really going on. (Or just use biomatter's work on the wiki )

You don't have to, though, which was the point of making the lore optional while you can just focus on mechanics and reaching the surface, but if you want to make sense of some of the events and other aspects of the world, it'll take more familiarity with that background information. I'm somewhat surprised to hear you don't know what MAIN.C is yet, but I guess you're more about min-maxing for the win, which is fine, too

So the attack is the actual experiment. But Warlord says he'll lead the assault once the experiment is over. That implies the player should wait around until the assault has been defeated! The bit about joining the party could be interpreted either to help to defeat the assault as well as to join Warlord once it's over.

True, some of what he's saying towards the end could be interpreted multiple ways, though I don't want dialogue to seem too "I am NPC A and I am doing X. You can do X or Y"-ish. It's more free-form than that, but crammed into what should be a naturally flowing one-way single-time dialogue, limitations that make it harder to feel dynamic without relying on at least some ambiguity.

About the experiment, it doesn't imply that, but it's not out of the question to assume it. Why does the experiment have to finish while you're around? You're not the center of everything--in fact just a small side-player in all of what's really going on--and many of the events and encounters, especially towards the end, are meant to reflect that.

In any case, as I said earlier there will be a clearer indication that you should leave, one that I couldn't add in time for Alpha 9.

[Happylisk]

The one password relevant to the Extension branch comes from our good friend 07.

As for Main.C, I am willing to bet my shiny metal ass that he's hanging out in Command.  I'm also sure one of the possible game endings will entail fighting your way through Command, and plugging in a password to Main.C to reboot him.  Finally, I am also sure pulling this off will be brutally, brutally difficult.

[Decker]

I think you just need to read more of the basic lore, the terminal records, to figure out what's really going on.

I read everything I've seen so far, over several months. I don't keep notes, though. You have to realize that the average player will play a bit now and then, and forget a lot between each session.

I'm somewhat surprised to hear you don't know what MAIN.C is yet, but I guess you're more about min-maxing for the win, which is fine, too

No, I'm also trying hard to figure out how to unlock the additional content. It looks like I won't succeed, though. I still don't have any idea which password Data Miner is supposed to give you for Warlord. Biomatter's terminal dump for Data Miner doesn't contain a password for Warlord either.

For what it's worth, it might be nice if one-time-use passwords were replaced with access credentials that appear as additional entries on the hacking screen. The player can't lose them that way, and it would help them figure out what they're for.

Why does the experiment have to finish while you're around? You're not the center of everything.

Everything does seem to revolve around you. The MAIN.C assault starts right when you show up at Warlord's base. Warlord's ready to launch his assault just when you appear. Also, Warlord fights to the death to contain the assault, unless presumably when you unlock that door.

[Sherlockkat]

Also, Warlord fights to the death to contain the assault, unless presumably when you unlock that door.

Let me save you some grief, Decker .

Unlocking that door won't save the warlord. It just contains some prototype loot. It's good, but nothing to write home about. Kyzrati ninja'd one more entry into the Data miner terminals which contains the pwd for unlocking that door. I skipped over it the first time and whined about it somewhere in this thread and he let it slip that there is another entry in one of those terminals. Make sure you write it down though as it is not mirrored in the log. The only course of action that allows the warlord to live is to leave after you meet him.

I am fairly certain that the god-mode password does not have a use until you hit -2. The Warlord follows through on his word and launches an assault when you enter -2. I assume that god-mode tags along for it. I didn't see it as I was trying to win and took the exit asap. I am not sure how you would enter that password though. You probably need a data jack or something.

[Happylisk]

K confirmed that a datajack is necessary to hack behemoths with that code given by a rando derelict in the caves, so I would assume the same applies to GM as well. 

Speaking of Caves, I often find the upper caves on -5 and -4 to be run-endingly difficult.  They're just brutal for a combat build.  I'm probably making it harder for myself by not going in there with sensors. 

[Kyzrati]

Biomatter's terminal dump for Data Miner doesn't contain a password for Warlord either.

Yep, it was added after he wrote that entry. I mentioned it earlier this thread.

For what it's worth, it might be nice if one-time-use passwords were replaced with access credentials that appear as additional entries on the hacking screen. The player can't lose them that way, and it would help them figure out what they're for.

That was discussed at the beginning of this thread as something that will be done, yeah. It's been on the back burner for a long while because there were so few long-term codes in the game, not enough for it to be a meaningful feature, but now we have a few so it's finally useful! It's on the Alpha 10 list.

Why does the experiment have to finish while you're around? You're not the center of everything.

Everything does seem to revolve around you. The MAIN.C assault starts right when you show up at Warlord's base. Warlord's ready to launch his assault just when you appear.

What I mean is the lore and plot of the whole game--what is generally going on in the world. The Warlord situation is a coincidence, but I just tried to write more about five different ways and had to give up because I'll be giving away too much.

Speaking of Caves, I often find the upper caves on -5 and -4 to be run-endingly difficult.  They're just brutal for a combat build.

That could be the case!

I don't think they're any more difficult than the Factory, just challenging in different ways, though they are certainly more random, which adds to their potential deadliness. The rewards at the end of either of those branches are quite beneficial, so they can't be too easy.

Sensors do vastly increase survivability in the caves, though it's possible they could use some tweaking. I didn't fully balance them yet, so with more feedback from everyone (and my own additional runs through there--I haven't done enough) they will likely be changed. Only now is everyone wanting to head through there

Actually, part of why they couldn't be fully balanced yet is that more content is still to be added. I'll try to get some of that in for Alpha 10!

[Decker]

Kyzrati ninja'd one more entry into the Data miner terminals which contains the pwd for unlocking that door. I skipped over it the first time and whined about it somewhere in this thread and he let it slip that there is another entry in one of those terminals. Make sure you write it down though as it is not mirrored in the log. The only course of action that allows the warlord to live is to leave after you meet him.

Aha! So that's what happened. Many thanks! I should have read that thread more carefully

Speaking of Caves, I often find the upper caves on -5 and -4 to be run-endingly difficult.  They're just brutal for a combat build.

I've had some success with three ingredients.
1) Sky-high inventory to counter the loss by self-destruction.
2) Carrying a fat stack of launchers.
3) Keeping a launcher equipped at all times even if heavily corrupted.

A pest nest or an outpost breaking out can ruin your day. That's why having a launcher ready to fire comes handy. It'll clear out the nasties fast enough that you won't lose many parts. Matter is about the only thing you're not in danger of running out in the caves.

You can restock by forcing a 1vs1 fight at point blank when the map allows that. I never use self-destruct interrupters. Scanners and sensors are nice-to-have.

One last thing, I go straight west in the 2 first maps and straight east in the proximity cave. The exit is invariably at the end in those directions from what I've seen thus far.

[Kyzrati]

You can restock by forcing a 1vs1 fight at point blank when the map allows that.

That's the approach I use--try to fight up close and snatch things as they're dropped. (Other than trying to avoid unnecessary combat in the first place if I have sensors.)

One last thing, I go straight west in the 2 first maps and straight east in the proximity cave. The exit is invariably at the end in those directions from what I've seen thus far.

Yup, they're designed that way so that you generally know which way to go, and for the local maps to kinda make sense in the grand scheme of things. If you watch how the world map is laid out each run, it will almost always be that the caves are "west of 0b10" and 0b1 is "east of 0b10." (In rare cases a cave might appear to the east if you've taken several early branches that fill up the western side of the map.)

[Sherlockkat]

Win #2. Couldn't get to the data-miner . But, did meet GM in -2. I also realized that I need to bring a datajack along with me as they shut down the machine network in -2. Cannot fabricate one. Man, -2 becomes real ez if you link up with rebels.

I was hoping that they would come into access with me. No such luck. Access got really exciting. I didn't snowball hackware as I normally do. I think I had like +40 in access, so it took a while to hack the exit. Effing programmers blew away the door terminal. Then began the long scramble to find an energy cycler. It was like miles away from the exit. My personal saviour was an advanced drone that I deployed when I dove a swarmer-hunter-programmer hybrid cloud on my way back to the exit. I deployed him in the middle just when the drone bay was about to go and he absorbed fire like a champ.

I am starting to feel the propulsion nerfs. Normally, I never have programmers called down on me. But, I also think it could be because fabrication advances the food clock by a lot. Frickin 83 (or is it 63?) turns to build a basic hacking suite.

Code: [Select]

Cogmind - Alpha 9

Name: Sherlockkat

---[ ESCAPED! ]---

 Performance
-------------
Evolutions (9)             4500
Robots Destroyed (18)      90
Value Destroyed (717)      717
Prototype IDs (15)         300
Alien Tech Identified (0)  0
Bonus (7213)               7213
              TOTAL SCORE: 12820

 Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity             973/1600
Matter                     255/300
Energy                     78/140
System Corruption          6%
Temperature                Warm (123)
Location                   Surface

 Parts
-------
Power (2)
  Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (7)
  Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
  Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
  Improved Q-Thruster
  Experimental Q-Thruster
Utility (14)
  Enhanced Optical Array
  Advanced Sensor Array
  Hacking Suite
  Hacking Suite
  Advanced System Shield
Weapon (2)
  (None)
Inventory(4)
  Heavy Neutron Cannon
  Heavy Rocket Launcher
  Point Singularity Launcher

 Peak State
------------
Power
  Micro Fission Core
  Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion
  Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
  Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
  Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
  Nuclear Pulse Array
  Diametric Drive
  Improved Diametric Drive
Utility
  Enhanced Optical Array
  Advanced Sensor Array
  Transmission Jammer
  Hacking Suite
  Hacking Suite
  Hacking Suite
  Hacking Suite
  Advanced System Shield
  Drone Bay
Weapon
  Enhanced Nova Cannon
Inventory
  Quantum Reactor
  Impulse Thruster Array
  Heavy Rocket Launcher
[Rating: 104]

 Favorites
-----------
Power                      Micro Fission Core
  Engine                   Angular Momentum Engine
  Power Core               Micro Fission Core
  Reactor                  Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion                 Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
  Leg                      Aluminum Leg
  Flight Unit              Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
Utility                    Hacking Suite
  Device                   Advanced Sensor Array
  Processor                Enhanced Optical Array
  Hackware                 Hacking Suite
  Protection               Reactive Light Armor
Weapon                     Chainsword
  Energy Cannon            Enhanced Nova Cannon
  Ballistic Gun            Assault Rifle
  Launcher                 Heavy Rocket Launcher
  Impact Weapon            Powered Hammer
  Slashing Weapon          Chainsword
  Special Melee Weapon     Datajack

 Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown            7213
  Met Warlord at Base      500
  Met Warlord at Research  2000
  Win                      3000
  Fast Win                 1713
Classes Destroyed          5
  Recycler                 1
  Operator                 3
  Watcher                  1
  Swarmer                  12
  Grunt                    1
NPCs Destroyed             0
Best Kill Streak           5
  Combat Bots Only         5
Matter Collected           1014
  Salvage Created          372
Parts Attached             78
  Power                    18
  Propulsion               23
  Utility                  18
  Weapon                   19
Parts Lost                 35
  Power                    8
  Propulsion               12
  Utility                  9
  Weapon                   6
Average Slot Usage (%)     76
  Naked Turns              3
Spaces Moved               8784
  Fastest Speed (%)        666
  Average Speed (%)        356
  Slowest Speed (%)        20
  Overloaded Moves         84
  Propulsion Burnouts      0
  Targets Rammed           0
  Cave-ins Triggered       1
  Teleports                0
Heaviest Build             46
  Greatest Support         67
  Greatest Overweight (x)  2
  Average Overweight (x)   0
Largest Inventory          4
  Most Items Carried       4
  Average Items Carried    3
Core Damage Taken          1186
Average Core Remaining (%) 87
  Depth 10 Exit            82
  Depth 9 Exit             95
  Depth 8 Exit             89
  Depth 7 Exit             70
  Depth 6 Exit             98
  Depth 4 Exit             182
  Depth 3 Exit             97
  Depth 2 Exit             100
  Depth 1 Exit             60
Volleys Fired              44
  Largest                  2
  Hottest                  149
Shots Fired                66
  Gun                      42
  Cannon                   14
  Launcher                 10
  Special                  0
  Kinetic                  42
  Thermal                  10
  Explosive                10
  Electromagnetic          0
  Entropic                 4
Shots Hit Robots           37
  Core Hits                25
Overload Shots             0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Heat Surge               0
  Short Circuit            0
  Meltdown                 0
Melee Attacks              9
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 9
  Piercing                 0
Damage Inflicted           1659
  Projectiles              520
  Explosions               924
  Melee                    215
  Ramming                  0
  Kinetic                  260
  Thermal                  225
  Explosive                782
  Electromagnetic          0
  Impact                   0
  Slashing                 215
  Piercing                 0
  Entropic                 177
Self-Inflicted Damage      97
  Shots                    2
  Rammed                   0
Highest Temperature        305
  Average Temperature      57
  Shutdowns                0
  Energy Bleed             0
  Interference             0
  Matter Decay             1
  Short Circuit            0
  Damage (minor)           0
  Damage (major)           0
  Damage (core)            0
Highest Corruption         6
  Average Corruption       3
  Message Errors           4
  Parts Rejected           0
  Data loss (map)          3
  Data loss (database)     1
  Misfires                 0
  Misdirections            7
  Targeting Errors         0
  Weapon Failures          1
  Depth 7 End              3
  Depth 4 End              3
  Depth 1 End              6
Haulers Intercepted        0
Robots Corrupted           0
Robots Melted              0
Power Chain Reactions      0
Tactical Retreats          31
Communications Jammed      99
Parts Field Recycled       0
  Retrieved Matter         0
Parts Merge Repaired       0
Drone Launches             4
  Drone Recoveries         0
Derelicts Assembled        0
Traps Triggered            0
  Indirectly               0
Trap Hack Attempts         0
  Triggered                0
  Disarmed                 0
  Reprogrammed             0
  Reused                   0
Machines Disabled          13
Data Cores Recovered       0
  Used                     0
Machines Hacked            36
  Terminals                21
  Fabricators              5
  Repair Stations          3
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              3
  Garrison Access          1
Total Hacks                99
  Successful               55
  Failed                   39
  Catastrophic             13
  Database Lockouts        0
  Manual                   33
  Unauthorized             10
  Terminals                48
  Fabricators              15
  Repair Stations          9
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              16
  Garrison Access          1
Terminal Hacks             33
  Record                   11
  Part Schematic           2
  Robot Schematic          0
  Robot Analysis           0
  Prototype ID Bank        5
  Open Door                2
  Level Access Points      2
  Branch Access Points     2
  Emergency Access Points  0
  Machine Index            0
  Terminal Index           0
  Fabricator Index         0
  Repair Station Index     0
  Recycling Unit Index     0
  Scanalyzer Index         0
  Garrison Index           0
  Alert Level              0
  Unreport Threat          0
  Locate Traps             0
  Disarm Traps             0
  Reprogram Traps          0
  Dispatch Records         1
  Maintenance Status       0
  Security Status          0
  Surveillance Status      0
  Patrol Status            0
  Transport Status         0
  Investigation Status     0
  Extermination Status     0
  Reinforcement Status     0
  Assault Status           0
  Garrison Status          0
  Intercept Status         0
  Recall Investigation     1
  Recall Extermination     0
  Recall Reinforcements    0
  Recall Assault           0
  Hauler Manifests         0
  Registered Components    0
  Registered Prototypes    0
  Zone Layout              0
  Sector Layout            0
  Machine Controls         0
Hacking Detections         25
  Full Trace Events        3
  Feedback Events          0
  Feedback Corruption      0
  Feedback Part Disabled   0
  Feedback Blocked         0
Trojans Installed          4
  Terminals                4
  Fabricators              0
  Repair Stations          0
  Recycling Units          0
  Scanalyzers              0
  Garrison Access          0
Fabricators Overloaded     0
Garrisons Disabled         1
Garrisons Compromised      0
Fabrication Nework Shutdowns0
Robot Schematics Acquired  0
  Robots Built             0
  Total Robot Build Rating 0
  Robot Fabrication Matter 0
  Robot Fabrication Time   0
Part Schematics Acquired   6
  Parts Built              5
  Total Part Build Rating  11
  Part Fabrication Matter  540
  Part Fabrication Time    270
Parts Repaired             1
  Part Repair Time         13
Parts Recycled             0
  Recycled Matter          0
  Retrieved Matter         0
  Retrieved Components     0
Parts Scanalyzed           5
  Part Schematics Acquired 4
  Parts Damaged            0
Robot Analysis Total       0
Robots Rewired             0
Robots Hacked              0
  Non-combat               0
  Combat                   0
  Parse                    0
  Link                     0
  Rebooted                 0
  Overloaded               0
  Assimilated              0
  Manual                   0
  Secondary                0
Robot Hack Failures        0
Allies Hacked              1
Hacks Repelled             0
Total Allies               6
  Largest Group            1
  Highest-Rated Group      38
  Highest-Rated Ally       38
Total Orders               4
  STAY                     0
  GOTO                     1
  ROAM                     0
  FOLLOW                   0
  GUARD                    0
  AID                      0
  BUILD                    0
  TUNNEL                   0
  DROP                     0
  PICKUP                   0
  COLLECT                  0
  EXPLORE                  3
  RETURN                   0
Terraforming Orders        0
  Walls Built              0
  Walls Tunneled           0
Ally Attacks               0
  Total Damage             0
  Kills                    0
Allies Corrupted           3
Allies Melted              0
Peak Influence             255
  Average Influence        16
  Final Influence          0
Maximum Alert Level        1
  Low Security (%)         98
  Level 1                  1
  Level 2                  0
  Level 3                  0
  Level 4                  0
  Level 5                  0
Squads Dispatched          22
  Investigation            5
  Extermination            3
  Reinforcement            5
  Assault                  9
  Garrison                 0
  Intercept                0
Derelict Logs Recovered    4
Exploration Rate (%)       26
  Regions Visited          20
  Pre-discovered Areas     2
Garrisons Visited          0
  Relays Disabled          0
  Generators Disabled      0
Network Hubs Disabled      0
Actions Taken              10388
Turns Passed               4428
  Depth 11                 69
  Depth 10                 193
  Depth 9                  52
  Depth 8                  115
  Depth 7                  680
  Depth 6                  151
  Depth 5                  1418
  Depth 4                  505
  Depth 3                  139
  Depth 2                  556
  Depth 1                  550
  Scrapyard                69
  Materials                343
  Factory                  1738
  Research                 695
  Access                   550
  Mines                    17
  Waste                    74
  Upper Caves              627
  Proximity Caves          48
  Warlord                  267

 Prototype IDs
---------------
Enhanced Fission Core
Experimental Cesium-ion Thruster
Improved Diametric Drive
Improved Q-Thruster
Experimental Q-Thruster
Experimental Optical Array
Experimental Sensor Array
Experimental ECM Suite
Gravity Neutralizing Apparatus
Ghost Barrier
Improved Fusion Compressor
Vortex Driver
Tri-rail Accelerator
Compact Tesla Bomb Launcher
Gravity Flail

 Fabricated
------------
2x Flight Unit (-5/Factory)
1x Hacking Suite (-4/Factory)
1x Hacking Suite (-4/Factory)
1x Hacking Suite (-2/Research)

 Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None

 Route
-------
-11/Scrapyard
-10/Materials (discovered 2 exits: *Mat / Min)
-9/Materials
-9/Mines
-8/Materials
-7/Factory (discovered 5 exits: *Fac x3 / Low x2)
-6/Factory
-5/Factory
-5/Waste
-5/Factory
-5/Upper Caves
-5/Upper Caves
-5/Warlord
-4/Proximity Caves
-4/Factory (discovered 2 exits: *Res / *Upp)
-4/Upper Caves
-4/Upper Caves
-3/Research (discovered 3 exits: *Res x3)
-2/Research
-1/Access
Surface

 Game
------
Seed: 1466018680
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 81 min
Sessions: 1
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 274
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 0
Font: 12/Tallcaps
Map View: 83x54
FOV Handling: Fade In


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edit : Oh wait. Turns out the unided prototype launcher that I had was a point singularity launcher. Oh man, if I had known, so much trouble could have been avoided. Though it wouldn't have been as exciting to just blow through to the exit.

[Kyzrati]

(I moved your post to the spoiler thread, since it indirectly mentions late-game things people won't know and looks like you meant to post here.)

Good point about the fabrication time effect while a flier. Normally when you're moving so fast, turns don't pass very quickly and you'll be out before you know it, but seeing as a single turn is equivalent to a number of moves, multi-turn fabrication is a sudden big hit. The way to counteract that would be to prefer high-tier fabricators where construction is faster, and/or if capable, use "the right Trojan" to speed up the build process further. Pretty good trade offs overall, though.

Another solid win! Sounds like fun

You say you were hoping they'd come into Access with you--there was one squad that headed up there, right?

[Sherlockkat]

Oops. Thanks for moving it this thread. Didn't intend to post in the spoiler-free thread.

You say you were hoping they'd come into Access with you--there was one squad that headed up there, right?

Ya. I was hoping god-mode and the warlord would follow (or maybe the borebot ). A squad of butchers followed me up to access. I used them as cannon fodder.

[Happylisk]

Hmm had a good run end for silly reasons.  I had my first game where I got to Data miner, Zion, Zhirov, and Warlord in a single game - first time in Warlord too.  From being spoiled by this thread I knew what was going to happen (the Main. C attack).  After it began, I looked for an exit inside Warlord's base... and couldn't find one. I hacked open his stash, and then in the south I found a terminal to unlock a door.  I assumed there was an exit behind it, but when it opened there was just an empty small hallway that was a dead end.  Couldn't find any stairs inside the base, tried to make for the exit outside the base and got clobbered by main.c forces.

So yeah.  I'm guessing I missed the exit somewhere?

[Decker]

So yeah.  I'm guessing I missed the exit somewhere?

You didn't. You exactly mirrored my game (visit to all four caves, end in Warlord's base).

Unrelated: I'm beginning to think that Data Miner, Zion, Zhirov and Warlord are always visited in this order (i.e. bound to the factory level depth). Any counter-example?

[Decker]

To clarify, if you stay in Warlord's base, then you witness his death to MAIN.C forces. However, if you flee before the assault, then he lives and helps you in Research.

The discrepancy is due to the quantum entanglement field protecting the base. Wikipedia has a good explanation on that. Essentially, Warlord's state is undetermined unless it is directly observed by the player, which causes the decoherence of the quantum field. Think of it like a tree falling in a forest that makes no sound unless someone is there to hear it.

So for Warlord's sake, please flee when you're supposed to.

Note that if you use the password from the Zionites to corrupt your vision, then it is uncertain whether the things you see are real, which prevents the decoherence, however by doing so *you* become entangled in the quantum field, making you simultaneously alive and not alive, i.e. you enter zombie state, which of course is impossible since you are an unliving metal robot, so the game crashes in a poof of logic.

... I'll show myself out.

[Happylisk]

Hmm.  I'm not as salty as you but I see your point.

K, what do you think about adding a second exit inside warlord's base?  That way an unspoiled player can stand and fight if they want, but if they decide "you know what screw this" there's actually a means of effectuating that.  Otherwise, your first visit to warlord will = death for the vast majority of unspoiled players.  I can even see a dead unspoiled player thinking they lost because they weren't strong enough, and not realizing that sticking around is a death trap.  Hell, I was semi-spoiled and still (needlessly) ate it. 

e: do you need to talk to Warlord to get his crew hitting up Research, or is merely getting to his branch enough?

[Happylisk]

So yeah.  I'm guessing I missed the exit somewhere?

Unrelated: I'm beginning to think that Data Miner, Zion, Zhirov and Warlord are always visited in this order (i.e. bound to the factory level depth). Any counter-example?

Data Miner and Zion are bound to -7 or -6.  Warlord and Zhirov are bound to -4 or -5.  So I've found Data miner on -7 and -6, but you'll never find him on -5 or -4.  These days I try to hit up every cave branch (while Zion is the least useful I like the self-destruct interrupter for making it easier to get to warlord and zhirov). 

[Kyzrati]

K, what do you think about adding a second exit inside warlord's base?  That way an unspoiled player can stand and fight if they want, but if they decide "you know what screw this" there's actually a means of effectuating that.  Otherwise, your first visit to warlord will = death for the vast majority of unspoiled players.

I can even see a dead unspoiled player thinking they lost because they weren't strong enough, and not realizing that sticking around is a death trap.  Hell, I was semi-spoiled and still (needlessly) ate it. 

The solution here is what I mentioned earlier--just a way to let the player know that they should leave ASAP. I was planing to add it but ran out of time. (Even with that I imagine a first visit could likely end in a loss for those who aren't prepared.) It's tough to do in a timely thematic (and flexible) way that also keeps the action from being centered around yourself.

Part of the reason the exit works as it does is that the Warlord encounter is intended to be difficult due to the huge subsequent benefits it provides (including also some local potential benefits which only one or two people have uncovered so far). It's not enough to just reach the area, so a full-on alternative exit from inside wouldn't be in line with that. That said, with a better understanding of how the encounter plays out, and knowledge of the secret exit from the base*, escaping isn't always so difficult.

*This is currently taught by a random NPC encounter, but I want to change that so that it's a guaranteed encounter near the entrance so players are aware of this alternative that can make escaping easier.

e: do you need to talk to Warlord to get his crew hitting up Research, or is merely getting to his branch enough?

You have to talk to him--Decker's quantum entanglement field and all

[Sherlockkat]

Re Warlord: The MAIN.C attack ramps up pretty quickly. The secret exit seems to spawn seems to be random (either at the top or bottom). If you are lucky and if it spawns at the top, getting out isn't a problem. If it spawns at the bottom, then you have to time your escape between the attack waves. I usually manage to do it with a speed build, but not without taking damage. I imagine it would be that much more horrible if you are running around in treads/legs. Maybe tone the first few waves down a little?

edit : As it is, there isn't enough time to explore everything in Warlord before things get quite cray cray.

[Decker]

I was running on Exp gravmag from Zhirov (speed 58 or so), which is fast enough that I did manage to explore everything -- or so I thought. I never found that random encounter. So yeah, making it easier to trigger would be a step up. Making the attack waves defeatable (and let the player know that it's possible) would also make the scenario more enjoyable, I think.

[Kyzrati]

edit : As it is, there isn't enough time to explore everything in Warlord before things get quite cray cray.

This was intentional, as is the "luckier" northern hidden route. It's difficult to balance the timing so that it's challenging for both speed builds and combat, though if you have enough firepower the latter is still doable at the right time. (Naturally sensors will help a ton here to find out what's going on and decide when best to make a run for it, but in that regard I'll be adding new defensive reports that tell when the waves are coming, where they're coming from, and probably what they include. The main issue at hand here is not balance, but access to information. I've tested the "true" difficulty and it's quite close to where I want it.)

And I'll just up and say it since this is the spoiler thread: if you're a combat build, trying to leave during the call for a counterattack, even through the main gate, is easier. Too long after that it becomes much more difficult as the base defenses are depleted.

I was running on Exp gravmag from Zhirov (speed 58 or so), which is fast enough that I did manage to explore everything -- or so I thought. I never found that random encounter. So yeah, making it easier to trigger would be a step up.

I figure you mean the hidden path random encounter, in which case it might not have even generated in your seed. Like Zion, there is a large pool of potential dialogue and random ones are chosen each time you visit, so you won't always see the same content, and not all of them appear every run. So what I want to do given how important that one is is to remove it from the pool and make sure it's always available near the entrance.

[Happylisk]

I should mention, I was naked when I got to warlord.  I got my ass handed to me on -4 and fled into an exit which happened to be upper caves.  Caves are really easy when you're moving at %200, but I still ended up with little core when I got to Warlord.  I raided his prototype stash, but it wasn't nearly enough to see me through the exit.

I'll try to get there with a full combat build and fight my way out during the counterattack sequence.  I suspect once you know a) about the attack, b) about the need to flee, and c) the window to flee during the counterattack, the difficulty will be hard but fair. 

[Kyzrati]

I suspect once you know a) about the attack, b) about the need to flee, and c) the window to flee during the counterattack, the difficulty will be hard but fair. 

This is what I was basing the design on, so assuming that works okay, it's apparent that info will still need to be communicated more clearly to avoid frustration.

Also, the Warlord stash is often good, but still hit or miss because the amount of its contents is quite random. There is better stuff to be found... No one has yet mentioned the Vortex Catalyst Activator