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2826
General Discussion / Re: Is This Game Right For Me?
« on: May 05, 2016, 08:08:33 PM »
Good points! I agree about the strategic value of managing the wider aspects of progress including the world state, and that's something that only starts coming into play with more experience, but perhaps that's the proper way to examine the games.
The relative freshness of Cogmind makes sense as a factor as well, since the long-term impacts of some approaches/decisions truly aren't worked out, and are even in flux when a system changes due to alpha progress. While DCSS is "worked out," though, that doesn't mean the strategy isn't there, it's just not something you have to question and probe quite so much.
It might also be difficult to confirm a roguelike's exact position on the strategic-tactical spectrum because in some ways it depends on a player's personal approach.
It's interesting you mention autoexplore, which is more telling in this discussion than I thought it might be. In DCSS you can definitely autoexplore your way from encounter to encounter and do fine, while such a feature in Cogmind would just get you killed
. The increased chance of death could technically be attributed to both tactical and strategic concerns.
The relative freshness of Cogmind makes sense as a factor as well, since the long-term impacts of some approaches/decisions truly aren't worked out, and are even in flux when a system changes due to alpha progress. While DCSS is "worked out," though, that doesn't mean the strategy isn't there, it's just not something you have to question and probe quite so much.
It might also be difficult to confirm a roguelike's exact position on the strategic-tactical spectrum because in some ways it depends on a player's personal approach.
It's interesting you mention autoexplore, which is more telling in this discussion than I thought it might be. In DCSS you can definitely autoexplore your way from encounter to encounter and do fine, while such a feature in Cogmind would just get you killed
. The increased chance of death could technically be attributed to both tactical and strategic concerns.
2827
Competitions / Re: Weekly Seed #38 [Alpha 8] [Seed: Dark Depths]
« on: May 05, 2016, 07:53:02 PM »
Inventory size can be overrated. In the best combat run I've ever had I spent almost the entire time with an inventory of size 6. That run also went through about four caves.
In the caves the key to surviving with a low inventory is to force close-range combat, snatching parts mid-battle when they're vital. (Well, Interrupters are a great option, too, but you have to find one first) But yeah it's still quite dangerous!
If you pass up the storage caches, the next best thing is to at least take a smaller unit from one of the non-combat bots. Fairly easy to acquire, and by the time you reach the mid-game, Haulers even have Lrg. Storage.
In the caves the key to surviving with a low inventory is to force close-range combat, snatching parts mid-battle when they're vital. (Well, Interrupters are a great option, too, but you have to find one first
) But yeah it's still quite dangerous!If you pass up the storage caches, the next best thing is to at least take a smaller unit from one of the non-combat bots. Fairly easy to acquire, and by the time you reach the mid-game, Haulers even have Lrg. Storage.
2828
General Discussion / Re: Is This Game Right For Me?
« on: May 05, 2016, 08:19:57 AM »@K: I always find it interesting how you describe Cogmind as more tactics-oriented than DCSS along the strategy-tactics spectrum. I think the opposite: that DCSS is more tactics focused while Cogmind is more strategy focused. I also get a sense that combat runs are more strategy focused.Huh. My angle there is coming from the idea that DCSS has its roots in traditional cRPGs, with XP, skills, and lots of permanent stats and effects, where you can decide how you want your character to develop over the long term and generally stick to that plan.
By comparison, with Cogmind you don't always have as much long-term control.
Certainly both are still very tactics-oriented.
This is assuming that, when fully distilled, the definition of "strategy" is more about the decisions with a long-term effect, and "tactics" refers to localized decisions and how you fight individual battles.
I think that differentiation can, however, shift with experience (in Cogmind).
The really good players can allow strategy to have a more permanent impact on play, assuming you can either lose very few parts (common with good speed runs) or simply lose fewer parts vital to a strategy and replace any that are lost with parts that can play a similar role to keep that same build concept rolling.
From what I've seen, for beginners and intermediate players it's almost purely a tactical game. Positioning is everything, and you want to grab whatever parts are most useful right now, rather than thinking in the long term.
I hadn't yet thought about the link with player experience, especially once you know how every mechanic works, and what kinds of places you can visit in the world and what you can do there, then can use that information to your advantage in maintaining continuity.
2829
General Discussion / Re: Is This Game Right For Me?
« on: May 05, 2016, 02:14:47 AM »I want to see Cogmind 2.Me too, can't get ahead of ourselves here, though
(but it's fun to think about)
2830
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussion/Feedback (spoiler-free)
« on: May 05, 2016, 02:10:37 AM »
Heh, 3c is veritably ancient now. So much has been added since then, and a few major system tweaks means it plays much better overall 
2831
Everything REXPaint / Re: Import txt into RexPaint - paste from win clipboard / import command
« on: May 04, 2016, 06:43:32 AM »
I figured you'd already batch-processed yours since you came up with your own solution . But thanks for spurring me to make the addition.
. But thanks for spurring me to make the addition.
2832
General Discussion / Re: Is This Game Right For Me?
« on: May 03, 2016, 08:37:19 PM »
Others can weigh in (especially the DCSS+Cogmind players ), but my 2 cents:
There are plenty of DCSS fans who also play Cogmind, though the games are quite different in some ways--Cogmind emphasizes tactics over strategy a lot more than DCSS does (though DCSS is still a very tactical roguelike compared to the classics). Know that while you can come up with a long-term strategy and character build in DCSS, that might not always pan out in Cogmind and you can end up suddenly having to find a new strategy (the chances of this decrease with meta experience, but it's always a possibility).
It's pretty easy to get into the game, which like DCSS is both simple and complex. There's a quick in-game tutorial the first time you play which will teach you all you need to know, and only later on once you're getting at least half way through the game will you probably want to skim the in-game manual to learn some of the subtleties.
The price is what it is for alpha supporters who really want to help fund development and make the game better. If you notice on the buy page, the final/actual price will be lower (and there's a mailing list to be notified when that happens), so you can wait until then if that's an issue. Actually, there will likely be a small limited-time discount coming up soonish, albeit without any extra supporter perks, just access to the game.
There are quite a few LPs on YouTube now--you might be able to tell from a couple of those if Cogmind is your thing
), but my 2 cents:There are plenty of DCSS fans who also play Cogmind, though the games are quite different in some ways--Cogmind emphasizes tactics over strategy a lot more than DCSS does (though DCSS is still a very tactical roguelike compared to the classics). Know that while you can come up with a long-term strategy and character build in DCSS, that might not always pan out in Cogmind and you can end up suddenly having to find a new strategy (the chances of this decrease with meta experience, but it's always a possibility).
It's pretty easy to get into the game, which like DCSS is both simple and complex. There's a quick in-game tutorial the first time you play which will teach you all you need to know, and only later on once you're getting at least half way through the game will you probably want to skim the in-game manual to learn some of the subtleties.
The price is what it is for alpha supporters who really want to help fund development and make the game better. If you notice on the buy page, the final/actual price will be lower (and there's a mailing list to be notified when that happens), so you can wait until then if that's an issue. Actually, there will likely be a small limited-time discount coming up soonish, albeit without any extra supporter perks, just access to the game.
There are quite a few LPs on YouTube now--you might be able to tell from a couple of those if Cogmind is your thing
2833
Ideas / Re: Cycle Propultion
« on: May 02, 2016, 08:48:03 PM »
We'd have to add sudden "out of nowhere" little girls for that 
. Perhaps just a variant of the deadly cloaked Hunter.
The reference for those who didn't hear the news: After just recovering from a recent leg injury, yesterday I went out and broke my shoulder. Like I said on Twitter: I'm getting too old to be doing flying forward flips on bicycles. Though I must admit this was my first one.
I've got lots of other bruises all over, having rolled to a stop followed by a bike landing on me, but the shoulder is the one that will require quite a while to heal.
Fortunately I can still type/code, though in the short term the medicine might threaten to keep making me drowsy. We'll see!
. Perhaps just a variant of the deadly cloaked Hunter.The reference for those who didn't hear the news: After just recovering from a recent leg injury, yesterday I went out and broke my shoulder. Like I said on Twitter: I'm getting too old to be doing flying forward flips on bicycles. Though I must admit this was my first one.
I've got lots of other bruises all over, having rolled to a stop followed by a bike landing on me
, but the shoulder is the one that will require quite a while to heal.Fortunately I can still type/code, though in the short term the medicine might threaten to keep making me drowsy. We'll see!
2834
Ideas / Re: Fabrication Overhaul Discussion
« on: May 02, 2016, 09:13:52 AM »
I thought about it more today and the likely new system will be something on the order of global matter stores allocated for the fabrication network (probably on a per map--or map type--level), and you can draw from those stores to build things. (The AI also draws from those stores and occasionally builds things, too.) Better parts will draw significantly more matter (unlike the current relatively small spread), and as the stores drop below a threshold, there is a greater chance of a floor-wide fabrication block and an immediate jump in security level, possibly with more patrols dispatched (we'll see--whatever it takes to balance in the end).
The stores will also increase and decrease on their own over time.
Auto-waiting does pose those first two problems, and honestly I think the best option is still to just show some kind of countdown timer to completion so you know when it's coming, it's not very hard to hold a button for a few seconds to wait out a timer. This timer could be shown directly on the map over the Fabricator itself as it runs to zero. (That would also solve the problem of new players not realizing you have to wait around for it. In fact, this same timer should be shown for repair stations. You can already get the info by right-clicking on the active machine, but why require a click)
The optimal play of continuing to do other things while building can still be dangerous. You know you've had those situations where you're like, oh, I'll just check around this corner, or go over to that room, and then be on my way, and suddenly you are in very serious trouble! I don't imagine it being a long wait, anyway, really similar to what it is now, with better hackers who can access high-tier Fabricators getting them even faster. (Like, much faster.) Waiting will be less of a heavy requirement with a global system in place, but I don't want it to be instant.
The stores will also increase and decrease on their own over time.
Auto-waiting does pose those first two problems, and honestly I think the best option is still to just show some kind of countdown timer to completion so you know when it's coming, it's not very hard to hold a button for a few seconds to wait out a timer. This timer could be shown directly on the map over the Fabricator itself as it runs to zero. (That would also solve the problem of new players not realizing you have to wait around for it. In fact, this same timer should be shown for repair stations. You can already get the info by right-clicking on the active machine, but why require a click
)The optimal play of continuing to do other things while building can still be dangerous. You know you've had those situations where you're like, oh, I'll just check around this corner, or go over to that room, and then be on my way, and suddenly you are in very serious trouble! I don't imagine it being a long wait, anyway, really similar to what it is now, with better hackers who can access high-tier Fabricators getting them even faster. (Like, much faster.) Waiting will be less of a heavy requirement with a global system in place, but I don't want it to be instant.
- Hide-and-seek games: if there is a patrol heading the fab way, then the player has to actively hide until the patrol strolls through. This is easy but not particularly fun.Same thing: "Easy" doesn't always work in your favor when unexpected things happen... Undetected trap blows a hole in a wall; Hunters masked against sensors were patrolling on the other side; time to party. Just one of many possibilities.
2835
Ideas / Re: Fabrication Overhaul Discussion
« on: May 01, 2016, 11:59:37 PM »
Making schematics more difficult to acquire would work if Scanalyzers were removed, since they'd either otherwise be frustratingly difficult to succeed with, or a good enough hacker could still use them to get anything. Unless we say it's impossible to get anything but common schematics from a Scanalyzer, and the rest have to come via other means. That approach seems to take away a lot of the freedom of the system.
While I wouldn't want to introduce a whole separate alert system for fabrication, some kind of global/larger restriction will need to be put in place on the fabrication side of things for it to balance correctly once the tedium and other limits are removed.
It would be nice if the system scaled so that it's still possible to produce larger quantities of common parts, if you really want to, but the really good stuff will be more limited. I'll think about what other kind of overarching system could be behind that. Certainly now that the matter will be sourced from a central/alternative location, that could play a role as well.
While I wouldn't want to introduce a whole separate alert system for fabrication, some kind of global/larger restriction will need to be put in place on the fabrication side of things for it to balance correctly once the tedium and other limits are removed.
It would be nice if the system scaled so that it's still possible to produce larger quantities of common parts, if you really want to, but the really good stuff will be more limited. I'll think about what other kind of overarching system could be behind that. Certainly now that the matter will be sourced from a central/alternative location, that could play a role as well.
2836
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« on: May 01, 2016, 11:53:33 PM »I went back to Data Miner. One thing I notice is that while the lore is very nice, the game rewards the player if they go through every terminal/robot and download every item, each time they get there. This could become a chore for a big map like Zion.In Data Miner it's just a couple terminals that have useful non-lore stuff, and they're always in the same place, so that's easy enough.
In Zion I was a bit worried about that, so to at least somewhat mitigate the effect all stationary inhabitants are those which provide you with benefits. If they're moving around they're purely for lore purposes and experienced players can ignore them (but the lore is random and some of it doesn't appear so often, so it can take a while to find it all--whether you have done so will be easier to discern with some kind of future meta record system).
So you basically just go around in a circle and hit anything that's not moving.
There are also some alternative encounters that could be used to create a potential drawback to hanging around in Zion too long. I didn't yet implement some of the more involved/special cave and Zion encounters. That said, I kinda like the idea that there's a place in the world where you're not running for your life, it just leads to replayability vs. optimal play dilemmas like this in a roguelike...
(@Sherlockkat: I moved the drone+fabricator post over to that thread for continued discussion.)
2837
Everything REXPaint / Re: Import txt into RexPaint - paste from win clipboard / import command
« on: May 01, 2016, 10:59:58 PM »
You've already probably got your own workflow based around your solution (or are done converting everything you needed converted, anyway ), but I just added command line support for importing .txt images to REXPaint 1.02.
), but I just added command line support for importing .txt images to REXPaint 1.02.
2838
Everything REXPaint / Re: REXPaint questions/bugs?
« on: May 01, 2016, 10:58:12 PM »¿is the 'offset' option in the roadmap? The manual doesn't present the option, and it would be a great help to create semaless images. Example of a graveyard in progress in spoiler, first time I realized how useful it would be, to create fake parallax animations.At your request, I just added image shifting with wrapping in 1.02. You can see a sample there in action as well, where I imitated your style a bit for the test
Supports shifting of the entire image, or individual layers separately.
2839
Announcements / Released: REXPaint 1.02
« on: May 01, 2016, 10:51:17 PM »
A bunch of other devs have been making cool stuff with REXPaint, so I took a day after releasing the latest Cogmind Alpha to throw in a few of the easier features on the TODO list (sorry, the tough stuff will have to wait until Cogmind is done!).
The full REXPaint 1.02 (160502) changelog:
* NEW: Image shifting with wrapping (Ctrl-Arrow/Numpad or Ctrl-Shift-Arrow/Numpad for single layer)
* NEW: TXT file importing (conversion to .xp format) supported via command line (see manual Appendix F)
* NEW: Partial PNG image importing (conversion to .xp format) supported via command line (see manual Appendix G)
* NEW: Fill tool includes second mode for 8-directional search
* NEW: Unlimited font size regardless of resolution limits--NOT ideal usage, implemented by request (see "unlimitedFontSize" in cfg)
* FIX: One line junction glyph in the 8x8 CP437 font misaligned
Some of the new features in action:
An imported txt file.
Shifting an image, with content wrapping to the other side.
I also included this experimental tool I was playing with earlier this year, though I wonder if anyone else will actually get any use out of it...
Importing a .png screenshot from ADOM into an editable .xp format.
Another from Brogue.
The full REXPaint 1.02 (160502) changelog:
* NEW: Image shifting with wrapping (Ctrl-Arrow/Numpad or Ctrl-Shift-Arrow/Numpad for single layer)
* NEW: TXT file importing (conversion to .xp format) supported via command line (see manual Appendix F)
* NEW: Partial PNG image importing (conversion to .xp format) supported via command line (see manual Appendix G)
* NEW: Fill tool includes second mode for 8-directional search
* NEW: Unlimited font size regardless of resolution limits--NOT ideal usage, implemented by request (see "unlimitedFontSize" in cfg)
* FIX: One line junction glyph in the 8x8 CP437 font misaligned
Some of the new features in action:
An imported txt file.
Shifting an image, with content wrapping to the other side.
I also included this experimental tool I was playing with earlier this year, though I wonder if anyone else will actually get any use out of it
...Importing a .png screenshot from ADOM into an editable .xp format.
Another from Brogue.
2840
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« on: May 01, 2016, 08:35:46 PM »
Ah Decker, always looking for ways to squeeze out some extra points
Almost every machine in the game is worth 25--there are only three special machines (Garrison-related) that are exceptions to that. The score value, like many other score values in the game, are directly proportional to the amount of alert level increase caused by disabling them.
While logically speaking machines should probably be valued differently, it wasn't planned and hasn't yet been considered. I do want to examine the entire scoring system once the world is complete, but it's not high priority right now.
Keeping all machines valued the same simplifies the system and means we don't need to worry about displaying their relative value.
Adding an explicit "value" to a machine would also tend to encourage their destruction for score purposes, when that's not really a primary goal of the game. It exists as a way to allow collateral damage to have an impact on the ecosystem.
But yeah some Cogminds are apparently all about being really, really destructive
Most robots are valued more than machines, and realize that destroying robots adds to two performance indicators, both Robots Destroyed (a flat per-robot value) and Value Destroyed (which is where most of the reward comes in, different for each robot and usually ranging from 1-99). The true value of a standard robot is shown in its variant number, until you start getting into prototypes. Ever met a Combat Programmer? They're worth 200 each
Almost every machine in the game is worth 25--there are only three special machines (Garrison-related) that are exceptions to that. The score value, like many other score values in the game, are directly proportional to the amount of alert level increase caused by disabling them.
While logically speaking machines should probably be valued differently, it wasn't planned and hasn't yet been considered. I do want to examine the entire scoring system once the world is complete, but it's not high priority right now.
Keeping all machines valued the same simplifies the system and means we don't need to worry about displaying their relative value.
Adding an explicit "value" to a machine would also tend to encourage their destruction for score purposes, when that's not really a primary goal of the game. It exists as a way to allow collateral damage to have an impact on the ecosystem.
But yeah some Cogminds are apparently all about being really, really destructive
Most robots are valued more than machines, and realize that destroying robots adds to two performance indicators, both Robots Destroyed (a flat per-robot value) and Value Destroyed (which is where most of the reward comes in, different for each robot and usually ranging from 1-99). The true value of a standard robot is shown in its variant number, until you start getting into prototypes. Ever met a Combat Programmer? They're worth 200 each
2841
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« on: May 01, 2016, 07:32:12 PM »On an unrelated note, I am now the proud owner of a self-destruct interrupter. Since I have no intention of self-destructing and can't figure out what's it for, maybe I should just drop them.Yeah, there's an encounter in Zion that explains what they do if you haven't figured it out by then. There's also Sherlockkat
I like Zion, and specially its mechanic that just repaired all my items. Would be cool if it worked for your inventory, too. Next time I'll part swap. The long-range scanner part is very good, even better than the long-range sensor.Little too good if it worked on your inventory. Especially your inventory, which as we all know is generally huge.
That's why I had him not repair you immediately, so you'd have a chance to attach what you want.
Purging corruption on entry is a very good idea. I had just dropped my weapons before entering.I did that since it's both cool and makes sense lore-wise, but just as importantly so you wouldn't have situations like what happened to you when you first met the Data Miner
.@Sherlockkat: Yeah, I'll have to do something about that. Drones were already pretty good, and I felt like adding more (there are several other kinds, too), but they should probably be made rare/special for balance purposes. That or I was thinking perhaps they need a mechanics adjustment of some sort. Any ideas? (I've also been thinking about them and other parts in the context of a newer fabrication system under which you could theoretically have easier access to unbalancing parts...)
Amusingly you still bit the dust
2842
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« on: April 29, 2016, 10:41:49 PM »
Close, indeed!
You don't necessarily need a lot of firepower, since you can crit the doors open (kinetic guns are an option, too). And even if you're unarmed, you can stand next to the doors and hope that Behemoths and Hunters miss, thereby blowing a hole for you. But yeah the approach on that side is for combat-minded Cogmind.
There are several other ways, too; Energy Cyclers are pretty reliable, but can be dangerous because they respond with patrol dispatches
You don't necessarily need a lot of firepower, since you can crit the doors open (kinetic guns are an option, too). And even if you're unarmed, you can stand next to the doors and hope that Behemoths and Hunters miss, thereby blowing a hole for you. But yeah the approach on that side is for combat-minded Cogmind.
There are several other ways, too; Energy Cyclers are pretty reliable, but can be dangerous because they respond with patrol dispatches
2843
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« on: April 28, 2016, 11:42:07 PM »
Ah yeah, a place to read them all would be nice, too, akin to the gallery. (Also related: the ability to see stats for everything you have in the gallery, a feature that's on the list but very low priority.) It wouldn't fit in the game world itself, though (as said library), since I don't want to inject meta content (the only current exception to that rule is the static Recycling entry code...).
I'm glad you enjoy the approach to lore--I'm obviously a fan of this method myself, its main drawback being that some players will have a tough time learning everything without spoilers (unless I add in multiple difficulty levels, which I'd prefer not to do). It gets harder and harder for less skilled players to access the latest content, since we're working our way towards the surface. But I'll come back and add some new content to earlier branches later, plus we do have some occasional new mechanics available to all.
The cave branches are only partially static. Zion/Data are -7 or -6, Warlord/Zhirov are -5 or -4. Most branches work that way (ex: Storage, which is anywhere from -9 to -7). In fact, there are almost no branches that always appear at the exact same depth every run. This is why if you really want to target a particular branch, you'll have to try to figure out where it is in advance. But all branches provide some meaningful benefits, so wandering randomly is fine, too
I'm glad you enjoy the approach to lore--I'm obviously a fan of this method myself, its main drawback being that some players will have a tough time learning everything without spoilers (unless I add in multiple difficulty levels, which I'd prefer not to do). It gets harder and harder for less skilled players to access the latest content, since we're working our way towards the surface. But I'll come back and add some new content to earlier branches later, plus we do have some occasional new mechanics available to all.
The cave branches are only partially static. Zion/Data are -7 or -6, Warlord/Zhirov are -5 or -4. Most branches work that way (ex: Storage, which is anywhere from -9 to -7). In fact, there are almost no branches that always appear at the exact same depth every run. This is why if you really want to target a particular branch, you'll have to try to figure out where it is in advance. But all branches provide some meaningful benefits, so wandering randomly is fine, too
2844
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« on: April 28, 2016, 09:54:16 PM »
Well, you have a lot of the details in there, and some good guesses given what's still missing in the game
Come to think of it, I should make a "lore completion" percentage somewhere (hm, no appropriate place for that yet...) that tells whether you've actually read all the records in the game, in case you're missing a vital piece.
Your unanswered questions will get answers in time. Next up is Alpha 9 where you can finally meet Warlord.
"Hooligans" would be more descriptive of the so-called "wild derelicts," those with no particular affiliation. The Assembled are something else altogether. In fact, no one knows where they came from at all. Some info is available through MAIN.C's own terminal records.
Thanks for your rundown; nice to see how it's being interpreted at this point! I might add a few bits as necessary to make misinterpretations or gaps in knowledge less likely. (But you've certainly got most of the right impressions so far.)
Come to think of it, I should make a "lore completion" percentage somewhere (hm, no appropriate place for that yet...) that tells whether you've actually read all the records in the game, in case you're missing a vital piece.
Spoiler: Lore talk (click to show/hide)
Your unanswered questions will get answers in time. Next up is Alpha 9 where you can finally meet Warlord.
"Hooligans" would be more descriptive of the so-called "wild derelicts," those with no particular affiliation. The Assembled are something else altogether. In fact, no one knows where they came from at all. Some info is available through MAIN.C's own terminal records.
Thanks for your rundown; nice to see how it's being interpreted at this point! I might add a few bits as necessary to make misinterpretations or gaps in knowledge less likely. (But you've certainly got most of the right impressions so far.)
2845
General & Off-Topic / Re: Introduce Yourself!
« on: April 28, 2016, 08:35:35 PM »
Welcome GreyGoldFish! (I merged your thread with the self-intro thread we have for this sorta thing)
Thanks for joining us! We certainly have lots of players from different roguelike backgrounds--DF and CDDA are of course popular. (Actually, Shobalk is looking for DCSS teammates right now if you're into DCSS, too! It's an excellent roguelike.)
The best way to get acquainted in the long term is to try out the weekly seeds, and eventually provide feedback on the releases and join any ongoing mechanics discussions.
Thanks for joining us! We certainly have lots of players from different roguelike backgrounds--DF and CDDA are of course popular
. (Actually, Shobalk is looking for DCSS teammates right now if you're into DCSS, too! It's an excellent roguelike.)The best way to get acquainted in the long term is to try out the weekly seeds, and eventually provide feedback on the releases and join any ongoing mechanics discussions.
2846
Competitions / Re: High Scores
« on: April 28, 2016, 07:54:52 PM »
Reset the leaderboards again now that we have Alpha 8.
We've started off, unsurprisingly, with a higher ratio of cave-related deaths, including my own
We've started off, unsurprisingly, with a higher ratio of cave-related deaths, including my own
2847
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussion/Feedback (spoiler-free)
« on: April 28, 2016, 07:52:42 AM »
8 is definitely easier than 7b, though not by a huge margin unless you get lucky or make it deep into the caves. Almost all the new cave content is beneficial to you, and the few mechanics tweaks are also in your favor (unless you liked to crit your way through locked doors).
Hunters didn't get any easier, though, so they're still to look out for.
I'm going to try and get an 8 win myself. Already lost this week's seed in a pretty terrible run, but that's partially because I insisted on entering the caves when not in great shape, and then not leaving when I had the chance. It's a good seed, though.
I'll be getting back into seed runs now that the caves are mostly complete. I was too busy working on them before and didn't see as much value in playing through them unfinished in 7b, as they were, since I wouldn't be able to experience their true balance.
According to the plan, 9 will continue the trend and be easier than 8, probably to a larger degree (although not for everyone, of course, just certain players depending on strategy and route).
Hunters didn't get any easier, though, so they're still to look out for.
I'm going to try and get an 8 win myself. Already lost this week's seed in a pretty terrible run, but that's partially because I insisted on entering the caves when not in great shape, and then not leaving when I had the chance
. It's a good seed, though.I'll be getting back into seed runs now that the caves are mostly complete. I was too busy working on them before and didn't see as much value in playing through them unfinished in 7b, as they were, since I wouldn't be able to experience their true balance.
According to the plan, 9 will continue the trend and be easier than 8, probably to a larger degree (although not for everyone, of course, just certain players depending on strategy and route).
2848
Competitions / Re: Weekly Seed #38 [Alpha 8] [Seed: Dark Depths]
« on: April 28, 2016, 02:29:59 AM »
I'm taking my notes as I go. (And I didn't end up doing anything spoilery this run...)
Quite an excellent start, this seed. There's immediate access to a cannon, grenades, and storage, then I took out an Operator for some hackware.
Treads just inside -9/MAT. I think I'll go super-heavy combat this round...
Once in the Factory, ran across this crazy huge reactor array... yeah it'll spike the alert level, but I can't resist blowing up *all* of them while taking out this squad
Was doing just great, until I didn't pay attention to my matter and it dropped to zero just before I got surrounded!
I really need to carry matter storage (loved having that on my last combat run).
Had ONE good shot left on my grenade launcher and took most of them out at point blank, then dropped my storage unit so I could move again, picked up enough matter to attach a heavy laser, and finished the last three off. That was close.
Ended up having to fly away like this.
But matter is obviously still a huge issue. Then I got an assault force dispatched on me not 50 turns after that
. I figure my best option is to hole up next to a Fabricator and see if I can overload it and zap them to death. It worked (Of course in doing so my own corruption jumped from 1% to 16%, ha.)
But it wasn't done with me yet. When I left the room another squad I couldn't handle passed by, and the Fabricator was still operational so I snuck back in and let it deal with them. Now I'm 28% corrupted! Corrupted but alive! This is a pretty bad way to start the mid-game...
Then I found this exit. Sorta scary since I only have a single crappy power source and am pretty beat up, and it could be the caves (as much as I'd like toe explore them), but I'll try it out anyway... it's -5/Factory.
Cannot for the life of me find a power source. One was dropped right when I needed it, but a Recycler got to it before I could stop it :/. Did find an exit, which again would be dangerous if it were the caves, not having a power source...
Yep, it's the caves (yay!), and it's is not the kind of start I was hoping for (uh oh). Surrounded by a pair of grunts and a duelist.
Actually didn't turn out too bad since they were right in my face and all three dropped their power sources as I took them out. Heh. We're in businesses! But I wonder where these particular dark depths lead... Time to attach the sensor array I've been carrying around so I don't run into an ambush.
Made it through the first cave without too much trouble, and in the second while exploring deeper I came across a base and wasn't sure what it was. I was going to walk by, then noticed an innocent Samaritan coming along. He treaded right by the door, which opened next to him and--BLAM--a ton of fire exploded out from the doorway. Okay yeah let's not go that way
Too late though, the hornet's nest was awoken and they spotted me as I tried to leave the area :/ (they even came out the hidden back door to cut me off)
From there I had no choice but to streak in the hopes of meeting a friendly force that could help out. That's when I ran straight into a lone Programmer... Someone will avenge me, yes?
Man, a far cry from my kick-butt run earlier in the week. Next time need to play smarter. I could've made it further since I'd already discovered the Factory exit, but against my better judgement I wanted to go deeper into the caves. Always a gamble in such a bad state to begin with!
Quite an excellent start, this seed. There's immediate access to a cannon, grenades, and storage, then I took out an Operator for some hackware.
Treads just inside -9/MAT. I think I'll go super-heavy combat this round...
Once in the Factory, ran across this crazy huge reactor array... yeah it'll spike the alert level, but I can't resist blowing up *all* of them while taking out this squad
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Was doing just great, until I didn't pay attention to my matter and it dropped to zero just before I got surrounded!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I really need to carry matter storage (loved having that on my last combat run).
Had ONE good shot left on my grenade launcher and took most of them out at point blank, then dropped my storage unit so I could move again, picked up enough matter to attach a heavy laser, and finished the last three off
. That was close.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ended up having to fly away like this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But matter is obviously still a huge issue. Then I got an assault force dispatched on me not 50 turns after that
. I figure my best option is to hole up next to a Fabricator and see if I can overload it and zap them to death. It worked (Of course in doing so my own corruption jumped from 1% to 16%, ha.)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But it wasn't done with me yet
. When I left the room another squad I couldn't handle passed by, and the Fabricator was still operational so I snuck back in and let it deal with them. Now I'm 28% corrupted! Corrupted but alive! This is a pretty bad way to start the mid-game...Then I found this exit. Sorta scary since I only have a single crappy power source and am pretty beat up, and it could be the caves (as much as I'd like toe explore them), but I'll try it out anyway
... it's -5/Factory.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Cannot for the life of me find a power source. One was dropped right when I needed it, but a Recycler got to it before I could stop it :/. Did find an exit, which again would be dangerous if it were the caves, not having a power source...
Yep, it's the caves (yay!), and it's is not the kind of start I was hoping for (uh oh). Surrounded by a pair of grunts and a duelist.
Actually didn't turn out too bad since they were right in my face and all three dropped their power sources as I took them out. Heh. We're in businesses! But I wonder where these particular dark depths lead... Time to attach the sensor array I've been carrying around so I don't run into an ambush.
Made it through the first cave without too much trouble, and in the second while exploring deeper I came across a base and wasn't sure what it was. I was going to walk by, then noticed an innocent Samaritan coming along. He treaded right by the door, which opened next to him and--BLAM--a ton of fire exploded out from the doorway. Okay yeah let's not go that way
Too late though, the hornet's nest was awoken and they spotted me as I tried to leave the area :/ (they even came out the hidden back door to cut me off)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
From there I had no choice but to streak in the hopes of meeting a friendly force that could help out. That's when I ran straight into a lone Programmer... Someone will avenge me, yes?
Spoiler: Score: 6,967 (click to show/hide)
Man, a far cry from my kick-butt run earlier in the week
. Next time need to play smarter. I could've made it further since I'd already discovered the Factory exit, but against my better judgement I wanted to go deeper into the caves. Always a gamble in such a bad state to begin with!
2849
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« on: April 27, 2016, 10:33:20 PM »I imagined the Cogmind blowing up the prison doors and going "Come with if you want to live" in an Austrian accent. (edit : I regularly used this to free prisoners in extension.)Hahaha... well, even without any hacking gear whatsoever, you'll generally be able to hack open about half the doors. There is also usually an Energy Cycler around.
On my last run I had no gear and failed to hack O7 out (his door looks different so it's distinguishable), then took out the cycler to free him, but by the time I got back to meet up with him he had lost all his propulsion
. Then I was wishing I could hack a Mechanic to restore his propulsion, but had no datajack... Oh well!Re Molecular Disruptor : It scales so well late into the game. It might even be useful for speed builds if you can find the space. It is really broken and OP. I like itHA! I had that feeling while making it (and figured it could probably even allow you to break the game in some unforseen way), but there's only one way to get it and it's not guaranteed, so I figured why not. If necessary we can balance it out a bit more later, but it's intended to be nice bonus if you're lucky enough to run across it.
It only has a chance to appear in one of any cave map in the game, and you have to visit that exact map to maybe find it. We'll see how common it really is. I could also lower its chance of being found, since right now it's kinda average compared to other encounters. In any case, fun to play with for now, and honestly there is additional semi-OP stuff on the way
Speaking of broken and OP items, the mini-drone bay is really good. I found it once in access and thought it was a really late game item. Turns out you can get it in factory. It made caves a lot more easier to navigate. Let's see how things turn out once the fabrication changes are in. It might make things a bit too easy.Yeah, this is why I'm worried about easy fabrication. It's going to throw balance off quite a lot if you can always create the few parts that are obviously extremely useful. We'll see... I've got a new idea regarding that I might throw into the fab discussion thread.
2850
General Discussion / Re: Alpha 8 Discussions [SPOILER VERSION]
« on: April 27, 2016, 10:00:53 PM »
Hehe, you got on the wrong side of the Zionites? Surprised that you still managed to make it out alive that first time
.
You probably haven't seen them all, though, since they're randomly selected from a large pool each time so it would take quite a few runs to get them all (and some are more rare than others). There's tips in there I'm pretty sure no one knows yet.
And for experienced players who do know all the tips, know that the stationary Zionites are the ones that provide some kind of real benefit other than simple text-based knowledge, so those are the one's to talk to if you're just doing a quick run and not looking for lore/tips.
Also, I think Zion could benefit from a little bit of background music. It is one of the very few areas where you are just chilling out. I am thinking something along the lines of the music that plays in in deus-ex.Yeah, eventually all areas of the game will have some sort of continuous ambient or music going on--this time I just added a sample for the caves since I had it handy.
p.s: Also, do the changes to the blast doors imply that I can't crit through the prison door in Extension and the mainframe doors in Cetus?Correct. I wasn't aware anyone knew about that yet, since it wasn't in the manual or context help, and no one's mentioned it. That was originally a way to get through any locked door, but it wasn't intentional. Those were meant only for the other several methods (there are still at least four now, I think).
Edit : Feature request: Would it be possible to include a pull up window which contains only dialogue with pwds (or even just the pwds with a brief description)?. I can see things getting annoying if I have to scroll through the log to find passwords.This is something I've been thinking about in the background, yeah. Waiting until the game is further along before addressing it. For now I just jot the four characters down on scratch paper if it's something I'm likely to use.
i) I liked the molecular deconstructor. Is this the only weapon in the game which does damage over time? Really fun to play with. A really good anti-hunter tool, I think.Yep, it's the only such weapon--mentioned in the changelog as the "unique weapon" with different mechanics. Very special, and even useful for more than just taking out robots
ii) Zion is cool. I love the "vendor" who fixes you up. Also, lol at storm laser. Also, learnt a new trojan. I already knew about most of the "tips". But, I can see this being very useful for new players. If they can make it there, that is :p.I kinda think of it as more advanced tips, anyway, for those who can reach the mid-game but need all the help they can get to tackle the late game. A good bit of it has already been learned by those who hang around on the forums, but new players in the future won't have been through the alpha process
.You probably haven't seen them all, though, since they're randomly selected from a large pool each time so it would take quite a few runs to get them all (and some are more rare than others). There's tips in there I'm pretty sure no one knows yet.
And for experienced players who do know all the tips, know that the stationary Zionites are the ones that provide some kind of real benefit other than simple text-based knowledge, so those are the one's to talk to if you're just doing a quick run and not looking for lore/tips.
iv) Met Zhirov in upper caves. I think I understand the lore lot better now. The alien artifacts were cool. I assume you can't further the plot with Zhirov before section 7 is open.Yeah, can't get further with him yet, though you can meet him elsewhere in 0b10. Only Decker's seen that before, I believe (it's not a guaranteed encounter).
edit : The score sheet says that I had 135pc of my health when I exited -3. Bug?I noticed that in my run, too, and interestingly it also happened on -3. Must be some strange new bug. I'll smash it.