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Author Topic: Mostly Feedback  (Read 1075 times)

Dzlan

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Mostly Feedback
« on: October 10, 2015, 07:21:30 AM »

First off all, I would like to say, Thank you for this amazing game. I've been spending a considerable amount of time playing it on a mates computer as I don't have the funds or means to purchase this at the moment. But still, it's probably gonna be the first thing I do when I can. This game is truly amazing.

Among all the roguelikes I've played, from Nethack, Angband, to Stone Soup as well as CataDDA and even Dwarf Fortress, I must say this is by far already among my favourites. You've truly got a perfect interface for the game that not only looks nice and suits the theme, but is damn fluent and just, perfect.

Although, there are some things I would like to bring up about how I feel about the game. I understand, of course, that you've already got a direction to push the game in and have made many decisions for probably, very good reasons. I'd still like to just bring these up anyway. No harm in that.

The first major thing I want to point out about what I dislike so far is the whole customization aspect. I love it, and that is what drew my interests. What I don't love, is how I've quickly become to realize that the game so doesn't allow that style of freedom with it if you really want to accomplish something.
Maybe I'm just bad at the game :P (I'm getting better, hehe) but with every fight that breaks out. I find myself losing pretty much all my guns and utilities.
And yeah, I'm using doors and things to my advantage. But all my shots seem to miss or when they hit, they seem to do nothing to the enemy. (Probably hitting some useless part or something)

I understand this is supposed to happen. You've got to find replacements and make use of whatever resources you have. The problem is, there is such a little sense of accomplishment and development when you find a new awesome part. You lose it pretty soon after. And I feel like the game loses it's, erm customization aspect. Or maybe the game isn't focused on customization, but I kinda had the idea it was.

The way to avoid the whole losing your shiny new parts so quickly, is to avoid combat. This brings me to what I personally feel is the biggest flaw right now. Apart from the few people who've had their successful full combat runs with incredible difficulty and luck. Stealth and speed is really the only good way to go. Whilst I think that combination works well, I also find it a little off putting.

The game has all these other directions. You have wheels, tracks and legs too. Not just flight units. You have all these beautiful guns laying about. Explosives, you can hack and assimilate the civilian mechs. You can armour yourself up, or even go with moderate speed, armour and weapons if you like.

But it seems that flight units, sensor arrays and interpreters are the only way to go to have a chance. Sure, you can't hold as much mass with them, but what does that matter? Having more support and a much slower speed just doesn't really give you any chance of survival anyway compared to flying at high speed and avoiding enemies.

I just feel like there needs to be some more of a weakness to that tactic maybe. It's not that it's unbeatable or anything, but I feel like it is superior in almost every situation. I also would love to see updates focusing on making other strategies more viable. Giving the player more ways to play the game how they like.

I honestly think that weapons and parts in storage should be in far less abundance and should be a bit harder to destroy. Therefore there's more to maintaining newly equipped items. More sense of, gaining something when you find a new part that's better then your outdated stuff. Repair Units would be a little more useful. Make salvaged gear from enemies more damaged. You know, instead of finding a rocket launcher that's just disposable for one or 2 battles, then replacing it with your looted light assault rifles again.

Also, on the note with Repair Units and other facilities and Terminals. Here is a suggestion I might consider to moving to the suggestions section tomorrow. When you're fully detected, you're locked out. Cool! And they know your position too, so get moving. I think, these also need to have a limit of how many attempts before they lock out (without alerting everyone). Doesn't matter if you're succeeding or failing. Just so you can't keep attempting to download schematics from the same terminal for 500 or so turns by waiting 50 ish turns after the detection gets high.

About the battle build mechs. I know. Your trying to escape. Blowing up every enemy in the map will get you killed because more and more reinforcements. But, you have all these awesome guns lying around in storage. And they are mostly useless anyway. But if a player wants to play as huge thundering tank, they should be able to with some kind of chance. Just something I'm personally hoping you'll keep in mind during future updates.

Same thing with hacking. More modules to help with hacking (Although I'll admit I haven't gotten too far to find out if anything actually will make you a pretty decent hacker) but I'd love to see a purely hacking based mech be viable too. Also, maybe make it so Overloading another mech actually makes them race forwards in one direction for a bit before exploding? Getting the attention of nearby forces so you can sneak past while they investigate?

I think I've gone on for quite a bit. It's 2 am and this took almost an hour to write up, now I've lost all train of thought. Once again, thanks so much for building an amazing game though. And I can't wait to purchase this. Can't wait to explore a bit more of what the game as to offer too.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Mostly Feedback
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2015, 07:06:19 PM »

Nope, no harm in sharing opinions!

Cogmind is just as much (or more) a game about adaptability as it is about customization. In fact, I plan to write an in-depth blog post discussing this aspect in comparison with other roguelikes, framing it as a strategy vs. tactics issue where Cogmind leans far more towards the latter than pretty much any roguelike to date. Players who enjoy creating a more static character build will have trouble doing so, and for some players who can only enjoy that kind of game, Cogmind isn't really a good fit.

To your more general comment, the "more options/strategies to play the game as you like" is coming gradually, though that relies in part on expanding the world. It will not, however, change the core mechanic and losing parts will still be likely in some scenarios. That said, with the right tactics and understanding of the world, loss is not quite as frequent as I can tell you're experiencing. From several of your comments I can tell you haven't played enough to have discovered quite a lot of particular content and associated strategies. My suggestion is to keep exploring and learning!

I always play a gung-ho combat build tearing up everything in my path, and I never die before the latter third of the game, so I can use myself as a metric of what's possible when you know everything there is to know :). Some of the better players have been able to perform similarly well, but still none are familiar with everything the world has to offer...

In any case, as you know Cogmind is still evolving (;))--there is a ton of stuff planned, just don't expect to ever be able to repeatedly face off against hordes of bots and not take a beating.

I think, these also need to have a limit of how many attempts before they lock out (without alerting everyone). Doesn't matter if you're succeeding or failing. Just so you can't keep attempting to download schematics from the same terminal for 500 or so turns by waiting 50 ish turns after the detection gets high.
You're perfectly welcome to spend 500 turns doing that if you like, though there's a serious drawback to this. Every turn comes at a cost.

Edit: I should add that I very much appreciate your support and look forward to hearing what you think in the future!
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 07:45:33 PM by Kyzrati »
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Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames

Dzlan

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Re: Mostly Feedback
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 02:02:04 AM »

:) I think I might need to start changing how I generally approach rogue likes, a bit for this one. xD Thanks for the reply and sharing your view on this too.
Actually, reading around a bit. I'm becoming to understand that I might be spending far too much time on the first and second level floors, which could be where my problem is.

Think I need to learn a bit more on the different weapons and the things their stats really affect in combat and find out how to increase accuracy a bit too. I get about %50 on every single shot, xD Which I'm sure is a fault on my half.

And again, thanks for this. : )
Will see how I go next time I can give it a good try, hehe.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Mostly Feedback
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2015, 02:19:11 AM »

I think I might need to start changing how I generally approach rogue likes, a bit for this one. xD
That's a big one, yep :).

A good number of roguelike regulars have come to the same conclusion on starting Cogmind, both an advantage (yay, something fresh!!!) and disadvantage (do I suck or does this game suck???)--which can also be an advantage if/once you can get over your attachment to your precious gear, an attachment that is fairly ingrained from other games. Much of it will usually be replaced by better parts before long, anyway. Just keep pushing forward and there's always more.

About accuracy, check this post. There's usually little reason to stick with such low accuracy.

And it did sound like you were hanging out in the early few areas for too long, and hadn't seen enough beyond that--those floors are mostly aimed at just getting quickly geared up for when things really get tough (and more interesting) starting in the Factory.
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Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames

Happylisk

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Re: Mostly Feedback
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 07:01:53 AM »

Quote
Maybe I'm just bad at the game :P (I'm getting better, hehe) but with every fight that breaks out. I find myself losing pretty much all my guns and utilities.
.

This is just an issue of lack of familiarity with the mechanics.  Combat runs aren't easy, but as you get more familiar with the game fights go from "holy crap I just lost half my utilities" to "one shotting programmers is fun." 

It's jarring going from an increasingly aversion in the RL community to item destruction (e.g. DCSS) to Cogmind's "everything eventually blows up" philosophy, and you have to adjust your mindset a bit.  Losing a girdle of giant strength in ADOM is literally the worst.  Losing your gun or armor in cogmind is par for the course. 
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