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Messages - Widmo

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
26
Stories / Re: Funny conversation with the Derelicts
« on: March 05, 2017, 08:15:25 PM »
Happened to me too. I was sad the noncombatant bot did not stay home.

27
Ideas / Re: Dealing with the Hackware Snowball Effect
« on: January 14, 2017, 08:31:02 PM »
My peak actually was +200% offense. Data Miner can go whine in a corner. That was on last factory floor if I remember correctly. It was a golden period of treating terminals like buffet tables. Take what you want in whatever amounts. At one point I was collecting schematics until I got bored by straining to remember part names to target. I think I was waiting for database lockout or for tracing to finally kick in so that investigation squad gets called to make use of compromised garrison access. Made me wish for Force(whatever) for terminals...

Okay, I am now convinced the numbers are too high and result in boredom. Or too much flexibility for someone who would not spend nearly all utility slots on hackware but put them to more optimal use elsewhere. On the other hand if progression will be slowed then the extra awesome rare hackware may get greater increase than normal.

Perhaps use this progression:
+8, +12, +16 ,+20, +25, +30
Makeshift could be +15. edit: or +10.

It looks nicer and does not make getting seveal Hacking Suite drops from material floors operator bots into as big impact as it is now.

28
General Discussion / Re: New here, some questions about time/energy :)
« on: January 13, 2017, 05:57:11 PM »
You may wish to pay a visit to RogueBasin if you have not done so already. It has a small collection of articles on this subject:
http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Articles#Time_management

29
Competitions / Re: Weekly Seed #71 [Alpha 12] [Seed: War Drums]
« on: January 13, 2017, 05:53:02 PM »
Congratulations!

I went the combat route because I let the Assembled and demolisher squad duke it out in the mines. In the debris I found three combat jets and two mini-grenade launchers there. Hurrah for having rating 5 parts at -10! Then I played way too aggressively and met my demise at Storage/-9.

Soon, 4 sentries were chasing after me while the pests kept harassing wherever I go. Unfortunately, my only weapon for them is a mini grenade launcher, so even though pests are weak against them, their dropped loots were easily destroyed upon splash damage. And if I tried to pick up the remaining ones, sentries were already at my face, so I had to run.
Consider carrying a tractor beam for such occasions.

Hacking became so easy after I scanned and fabricated a bunch of adv. hacking suite. Even manual hacking Access(Main) was easily successful upon first try (something I never achieved before).
Feels good, eh? My best snowball to date had 100% chances for such hacks at security 3 terminal.

I won't spoil how I got to the surface (Kyzrati might kill me for that!), but I will say that it was a scary experience. But once I got to the top, I was so happy. I hope I can win again, maybe with a combat build, or through Command, but it will certainly be tougher after the alert bug is removed.
Congrats again. For especially spoily details there is spoler tag naturally. Still, it is wise not to go overboard with spilling everything.

30
With structural scanner equipped destabilized volatile machines pulsate satisfying red, which is a promise of a nice boom. Just watch that adjacent grunt trembling at what is to come. How about giving them the same kind of visible timer interactive machines get? Right now I need to view it to see this information.

31
Ideas / Re: Dealing with the Hackware Snowball Effect
« on: January 13, 2017, 05:38:41 PM »
I was so surprised I briefly skimmed the thread again but no, there is no mention of this approach. What you suggest might be succesful, although I am unsure what to think about it. Certainly something to keep in mind though.

32
Ideas / Re: Targeting Overhaul
« on: January 11, 2017, 02:57:57 AM »
Does targeting a space override autotargeting even if only a melee weapon is employed? If so it sounds great.

33
Ideas / Re: Dealing with the Hackware Snowball Effect
« on: January 09, 2017, 12:23:56 AM »
General suggestions:
Programmer's chance to deflect hack attempts on allies should be triggered before menu of options is presented. This makes them more of a threat to combat hackers and improves quality of life somewhat. It is a bummer to choose something and then be notified your choice effectively did not matter.
That's... possible, simply implying they're preventing you from accessing the system in the first place. (Although I don't see how it changes their threat in any way.) One drawback: You won't get to see the percentages (or is that what you mean by an increased threat???).
Sorry, I should have written perception of threat. Having hacks be defended immediately creates appearance of competent enemy. The effect is clouded by annoyance when it happens after making an irrelevant choice. I view not seeing percentages each time hack attack is thwarted as actually good.

34
Fixed Bugs & Non-Bugs / Double "the" in Analysis(B-99 Colossus)
« on: January 09, 2017, 12:19:10 AM »
"As the the most powerful ... "

I remember you saying analyses will be put to spell checker but there is no typo so it might get away. I am reporting this just to be on the safe side.

35
Ideas / Re: Dealing with the Hackware Snowball Effect
« on: January 08, 2017, 03:30:33 PM »
  • There was a particular datajack introduced in one of the last few alphas which sparked serious interest in combat hacking (I'm guessing you didn't find it or didn't exploit it to its full potential because it's nuts and you would be raving about it).

Spoiler: that one datajack? (click to show/hide)

A small-time hacker shouldn't be able to have a chance of assimilating an Alpha 7. You should need to have +100 to hacking success to have any hope of assimilating it. Etc.
I think this is best approach.

The main problem with this is the instant kill mechanic. Lighter version of core overload could deliver damage to the core itself.(...)
I don't like this so much. It makes combat hacking more like actual combat. However, maybe it could be a time bomb of sorts? Or perhaps, if overloading gave 1000 heat to the target or something?
It is true my suggestion kicks hard into the overload hack feeling. On the other hand one shot kill is way too reliable to leave it without consequences.

Another thing is that combat hacking is weak against large groups of enemies, such as swarmers. You have to deal with them one by one. You can increase the incidence of these enemies to have a subtle effect on combat hacking.
Indeed, it will be subtle. Typically I wait until sufficient robot fodder to shield me is available. Then those are attacked first providing cover and ample opportunity to convert first swarmer/grunt. I choose one closest to me so that only a few enemies have chance to target me. The converted one will become next target so I concentrate on hacking another one but choose one with highest core integrity from now.

Having a limit of some kind on number of allies might be interesting. However, having allies impact the alert level more would achieve the same effect and would be cooler I think. You might have to face an altogether different kind of snowball: the alert snowball! Not seen since alpha 11! In one of my alpha 11 runs, and the first time anyone had really tried combat hacking much, I assembled a nice army in testing, but the alert level got out of control and I had to bail in a hurry:
Agreed, having alert rise high would solve all that much better. No matter how strong Cogmind's forces eventually MAIN.C will prevail like it did with Sigix.

Also, I think the effect of allied operators on hacking success could be nerfed, at least to diminishing returns like botnets.
Is this not the case already? I read somewhere the bonus is +10, +5, +2, +1, +1, +1, +1, ...
All I can find now is changelog entry for bugfix in Alpha 4 saying Operators after the fourth were giving nothing instead of +1.

I don't see a problem with ARCs being unhackable. They're probably the most thematic bots of the game to make unhackable. At least you can let them unload and hack the bots that come out.
If you look at it that way ARC could be regarded as a dumb vehicle whose core has no autonomy. Makes sense to forbid hacking but in that case you are right reprogram trojan should either not work or have ARC carry allies.

Slowing down the snowball is desirable, as it's easily the most reliable way to win right now, even if you ignore combat hacking entirely. I suggested a small change rather than a large one because snowballing hackware is actually quite fun and we wouldn't want to completely get rid of it I would think.
Increasing hackware rating will shift a) from early/mid factory to mid/late factory which will slow the build down significantly. Flight units are getting nerfed, so that will probably have an impact on fab meta game. Increasing the datajack rating will definitely affect how quickly the build comes online.
Hmm. Improved tier has rating four which makes it available at -7 where fabrication first becomes available. At the extreme this means fabbing regular system shields and hacking suites could be skipped entirely at lowest factory level. If improved hackware (and subsequently advanced and experimental tiers) were shifted to higher rating this would leave makeshift hackware to fit very nicely at rating four. I like this! Color me convinced.

36
This might be most trivial bug found to date. Wishing to draw on contents of my high capacity matter pod I dropped it and waited a turn for the extraction to take place. I had no intention of attaching it because combat was not prolonged enough to warrant dedicating a slot for this. Scan windows seems not to update after waiting in place because it still displayed full matter pod.

37
Confirmed Bugs / Re: Armory marked yellow on world map
« on: January 08, 2017, 09:25:45 AM »
Armory should naturally disappear from the AREA box as soon as you enter it, and it changed color as you simply entered the same depth it was on?!

I just tried to repeat this a couple times by running a route similar to your own and everything worked normally, so we'll have to see if and when this pops up again. I did make a couple of adjustments to the world map code based on your other related reports, so maybe that already had some effect? Not sure.

The first part is from memory. It might have changed color earlier but for some time it was actually red.
One thing I am fairly sure of: you need to discover armory first. Probably then hub and lastly the factory there, all before reaching this depth. Will keep a save file next time I manage to get that far.

You're definitely the first player to use the world map so much--most people don't bother, or don't even know it exists :P
Ha, I even got a bit impatient waiting for the route animation to finish. A world map was one of the features planned for old PRIME before I went for full engine replacement. Cogmind happens to fulfill this dream.  8)

38
Ideas / Re: Dealing with the Hackware Snowball Effect
« on: January 08, 2017, 09:19:45 AM »
I agree with the strategy being severely overpowered to the point of becoming killjoy. I was nearly invulnerable since end of floor -6 and if I had read the thread earlier I presumably could come close to this on end of -7. The problem is not really limited to late game. It simply reaches absolutely ridiculous proportions there.

Vectis explained why this has been unnoticed for quite some time very well. Datajacks' low chance of successful penetration causes most people to ignore them. If datajacks quality (negatively) affected hacking chance instead of accuracy people would have more fun using them and such things would have been noticed earlier, possibly before becoming so large problem.

For the original suggestions:
  • Hackware integrity is very gradually lowered over time as a result of successful hacks. (Not as easy to explain thematically, but that's not too important here.)
  • Increase mid/high-tier hackware ratings, thereby raising the depths at which they can be fabricated (fabrication being the most common way to obtain hackware).
  • Using multiple hackware has diminishing benefits (i.e. each additional hackware's effect is reduced more than the last). (This puts a general cap on what is possible and makes high-end hacking that much easier to balance.)
  • Hacking gets harder across the floor as more of it is successful, essentially introducing another form of clock. (This one's pretty in theme.)
Decomposing hackware would affect the well balanced machine hacking. I am afraid it would also suck mightily. Decomposing datajacks sound interesting but those can be farmed from programmers making it hardly a limited resource.

A slight increase of ratings accomplishes only slowing down the snowball without really addressing the core problem. It will make it more difficult to get the ball rolling but overpowering effect is going to remain. I think this is not what you want. On the other hand big increase severely limits the hacking game for machines.

Diminishing returns could work well, although I do not think you want this to kick in directly for the hackware itself. Mixed feelings here but this is my favorite option from those stated.

Hacking getting progressively harder is in theme but is also somewhat likely to suck some fun from the game for Cogminds with only some hacking capability. Meh.

  • Make some of the very high tier special robots non-hackable (as Behemoths are now). (<-already planned for Alpha 13)
  • Add at least one more higher difficulty tier for robot hacking. (<-already planned for Alpha 13)
  • Put a hard cap on overload and assimilation chances, regardless of hacking capabilities.
Making robots unhackable is a sad solution and I despise it very much. It is good to know you also dislike taking options away.

Higher tier hacking difficulty is fine! I would also make converting programmers a tad more difficult. I think a base -5% would be just right.

Putting a hard cap is already there - the 95% maximum chance. Lowering it further may end up seeming like a crude approach. Avoid?


Here comes some more food for thought!

Overload:
The main problem with this is the instant kill mechanic. Lighter version of core overload could deliver damage to the core itself. Maintenance bots should succumb completely each time from a single hit as everything currently does. Others might take a constant damage. For example around 20 points should be nice. Maybe add single point to this for each 10% over 100% chance. This would allow you to make Behemoths hackable again! Overloading them becomes possible but requires sizable matter supply for remote datajacking. Still a workable plan but no longer an easy kill.

I think swarmers should also go down in a single hit that way.

Assimilate:
ADOM's bard has a similar thing. They have music skill which works as "make pets from any kind of animal fast" card. It requires high skill levels but it is very easy to attain on purpose. The problem of ally army is solved by having a maximum number of pets. Presumably the number is determined by character's charisma. The more pets you have the more difficult is to have another one join you. Otherwise the animal is pacified but not made pet.

You might like to use something similar here with some in-game rationale. Suppose the Cogmind when reprogramming Identify Friend or Foe database has to encode there every signature of ally formerly assimilated. This makes assimilation progressively more difficult. Also it would make sense to vary the effect depending on "signature complexity".

Below when using rating I refer to schematic rating, not effective sum of part ratings.
* 1% times rating for every noncombat bot assimilated. This means you hardly feel the effect of assimilating some maintenance entities as cannon fodder. Operators, researchers, machinists and other such noncombat bots will make a dent in your assimilation chances as their ratings are higher.
* 2% times rating for every regular combat bot reprogrammed. The better your army the harder is to have more. As it should be. Assimilating a bunch of bots is still doable but this cannot become a huge army. A cohort, yes.
* 3% times rating for every specialist class combat bot in your entourage. They should be special! Their equipment is also so well chosen it deserves an upgrade.
* 4% times rating for prototype robot assimilated. It definitely should be possible to have an Alpha 7 or Stiker serve you. First time this happens it feels so good it would be a shame to make those unhackable. Two such bots for good hackers and three or four with some luck for elite hackers. If someone goes evolving utility slots for hackware only it could be more but such Cogmind opens itself up so much in other departments it could be excusable.
* A flat 50% for behemoths? Behemoths should be difficult to assimilate.

New suggested options:
Format hack for robots. This essentially wipes their IFF database turning them berserk, attacking everything in sight. They could also switch targets at random every turn. If robot is corrupted have the corruption amount dictate chance for turning neutral. Robots without weapons will not attack anyone but will still be considered enemies by the AI.

General suggestions:
Programmer's chance to deflect hack attempts on allies should be triggered before menu of options is presented. This makes them more of a threat to combat hackers and improves quality of life somewhat. It is a bummer to choose something and then be notified your choice effectively did not matter.

Currently unhackable bots:
I can't quite figure out why, but no one's ever managed to hack a MAIN.C Builder or Armored Robot Carrier.
Zionite K7-V23YC

Builder: I figure you forbade hacking them to avoid assimilation and using build command to for example wall off exits and garrisons to completely own the place. A sensible goal but in that case only disallow assimilate leaving other options open. Optionally have builders' analysis mention something along this:

"Due to plethora of architectural schematics required to be embedded in builder memory I needed a compromise in design to keep fabrication costs down. Model 05 features no IFF database because it can perform well enough without one and as a result Derelicts have been unable to reprogram it in the field. Unfortunate side effect is groups of U-05 Engineer keep eagerly working in the middle of combat zones until they attract enemy fire. Currently most of my research effort is dedicated elsewhere thus as temporary compensation for this flaw distress signals sent by U-05 are prioritized by reinforcement dispatch center."

Weak point of this explanation is when unaware accidentally shoot builders no reinforcement squads are dispatched.

ARC: I actually have successfully reprogrammed this one. Hint: garrison trojan. After trojan installation bait MAIN.C to send you an Assault squad. :-) You can take this as a bug report but I wish you turned this into a feature. Allow hacking ARCs please!

Overload: In low effort version standard overload is followed with bot unload. This neither leaves four doors on ground nor additional matter. Instead you can harvest the wheels (man, I like armored wheels!), engine and storage unit.
In greater effort version bots inside escape with ~90% chance otherwise getting blown up in core meltdown. For those who escape have non-fliers and non-hoverers fall taking strong impact hit. Even some fliers/hoverers could have some chance to take impact damage. Start off all surviving bots at warm temperature.

Assimilate: Works as it currently does with the difference it is explicitly allowed. This means when it deploys you still get hostile unaware! It is on Cogmind to push it down a chute or hide it somewhere so it does not unload. Even then a stray patrol might find it and boom! Two patrols.

39
Fixed Bugs & Non-Bugs / Sealing a garrison disarms nearby traps
« on: January 08, 2017, 05:51:15 AM »
I acted especially naugty and installed a segregator trap right in front of a garrison entry point in case my attempt to seal it failed. I succeeded but upon disconnect I noticed the trap was no longer there (Cogmind was not standing on it)! A bug or did I have a perception glitch? The garrision was one with two-square long "wings". No screenshot available right now but will save a picture when I find another one.

40
Confirmed Bugs / Armory marked yellow on world map
« on: January 08, 2017, 05:45:06 AM »
Screenshot provided. At first I discovered its location via tunnelling and then it was properly red. As soon as I entered factory level where it was located it turned yellow, as if Hub04(d) had infected it with its yellowness. Entering armory itself did not fix it.

41
The screenshot attached mostly explains it. Let me comment though I am fine with tunnelling recovering same information twice in a row. It is very much in theme. Besides, we are speaking abount a brute force hack there. It has no finesse. Also information about floors below Cogmind's current location is fine as well. "Ah, so that was the depth Storage was at! No wonder I could not find it".

The world map should not accept duplicates (I see it already protects against this in case of branch areas) and it should reject registering areas already visited. If mines at -10 are revealed and you visited them but are at -8 for example these would still register.

edit: When you find a derelict log which grants you information about location already present on your world map could you please modify the message to say "Wolrd map data confirmed" instead of "World map updated"?

42
Fixed Bugs & Non-Bugs / At 0b10/-X, security level 0 required
« on: January 08, 2017, 05:25:20 AM »
I think some information is deemed valuable enough by the AI that it is unaccessible by indirect hacking. The bug is in message given which is pretty much bogus. Two screenshots attached.

43
Fixed Bugs & Non-Bugs / Re: Option "show map intro" influences autosave
« on: January 08, 2017, 05:13:52 AM »
saving has to also save the UI state of your parts, and that can't be done until all of your parts are loaded into the UI list...

So it's actually unrelated to whether you've taken a turn or not (and unrelated to that option setting), but is instead triggered once the UI has finished animating on startup. Nothing I can do about this one except force the player to wait until the UI completely finishes animating before taking any action, which is probably worse!

When the option is off and after next level loads you can wait however long you please (last test was 30 minutes) and "Data saved" does not appear until you take a time consuming action. UI actions like sorting your parts and inventory do nothing for that. Forcing wait until UI loads would be much shorter delay in this case.

44
Stories / A stealth win with a little help from Warlord tinkerers
« on: January 08, 2017, 04:40:43 AM »
This was my first victory. It was in stealth mode. Access exit to surface is well protected and my last three successful runs which ended up at -1 were stopped right at the exit. The solution this time:


Zipping around very fast is quite fun but one should be wary of swarmers. These can be outrun too at speed 10 but a strong explosive launcher is a good option too. A rocket launcher allowed me to fight everything in lower caves without taking a scratch.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

45
Stories / [Brutal spoilers] Exploited hackware snowball effect
« on: January 08, 2017, 04:28:13 AM »
Reading the thread about hackware snowball effect I wondered if it is really that bad. All my previous experiments with datajack turned out to be thorough waste of time. Not only the datajack seldom works but then you also have to do it successfully several times in order to do anything useful. In meantime maintenance bots flee from you and combat bots shoot at you. Bleh!

From this point on spoilerific part starts. If you can follow this recipe Cogmind can be beaten with 100% certainty.

To check it out I turned my current game into datajack wielding nightmare. It really does snowball. First you get a single hackware which allows you to fabricate additional ones more easily. When you pile up on those you can use them to obtain advanced schematics to get even more mileage of your utility slots.

Then the datajack starts to be useful when it happens to work meaning you can minimize matter losses on remote attacks. When you get some meatshield grunts on your side they can take the heat while you convert the opposition to your cause. With ever-growing entourage you actually have surplus matter from the bots you did not convert in time and your destroyed followers.

Next cheesy tactics like garrison camping start to be viable. Challenges get turned upside down: you want yourself to be scanned by researchers so that you can have stronger followers. Soon you have army of prototypes on your side: Striker, Lightning, Executioner, Alpha 7 ... nothing can stand your might except artificially immune Behemoths. If (when?) you get the guided datajack you can oneshotconvert any enemies to your cause. Operators reveal all hazards which usually is a prize for worthy achievement of outsmartnig one but now this is trivial. Oh, an operator on radar? Zapp! Welcome to our army. No, there is no need to worry about that terminal.

With influence staying mostly low because you are not destroying robots the game becomes a walk in the park. I lost my guided datajack in an explosion of a machine which did slow things down but nothing too bad. I once let a behemoth destroy half my utilities because of boredom. I rebuilt pretty quickly. You can see some advanced hackware because there was little incentive to upgrade them.

The final verdict? 100% chances on very difficult hacks like recall assault are nowhere as breaking as 95% chance on robot assimilation. There is database lockout plus fabricator lockout to limit ordinary exploits. At access I had option of venturing to command but I was so thoroughly tired by the unexciting game I went straight for the exit. My run is currently at the top ot high scores anyway.

Soon I am going to make my way over to the snowball thread. There are a few thoughts I wish to share but not before I put here my other win though because this one is unworthy. It did not require much effort or skill. As the warrior said "I am disgraced by letting this score sheet be automatically submitted".

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

46
This one was actually very funny to find out. It is specific to keyboard mode.

1) Make sure no enemies are in view.
2) Target a machine and fire at it. Still no enemies should be in view.
3) Open world map and browse around.
4) Close world map.
5) Fire again expecting previous spot will be targeted.
6) Profit ... for your enemy.

I unintentionally shot at a wall blowing off my hard earned grenade launcher that way.

47
Ideas / Arrow key support for option screen
« on: January 05, 2017, 11:22:54 AM »
The option screen is all nice and fine but it would be good to support arrow keys so keyboard players can read option descriptions without toggling it. Especially important for tutorial option which cannot be undone once reset.

48
*sees email notification that looks like a report, guesses it's Widmo*

*opens forums, not surprised* :P
At this point even Notoriety(Purge) is not going to help me surprise you. :P

I think Widmo needs an award for being the Cogmind to use Repair Stations more than anyone in history, especially under interesting circumstances.
Oh, I see a nice tiny companion besides the badges. Cool, thank you!

Repair Units always have the stuff I need. Whether it is a rare prototype, a combat airjet obtained from demolisher in mines or a fancy stuff found down some dirty chute there is one go-to place for getting it fixed. Incidentally this is the only machine where I prefer System Shield to Hacking Suite. It is more beneficial to have more repairs than bumping already good success chance for most items. On the other hand even offensive hackware opens a nice option - refitting. :) My speed builds often can make use of some backup propulsion. Basically, the Repair Unit is so well balanced it is a pleasure to toy with it.

49
When a repair unit takes your only power source for repairing the refit option should become available if it was not previously, same for similar situations. This inconsistency rarely comes into play and costs just a few keystrokes to work around. Having my Cooled Ion Engine badly damaged I gave it away for fixing but a backup power source would not hurt meantime (I was not being traced yet) because a band of grunts was after my baterry juices. Huh, refit unavailable? I pondered a manual hack but choose to disconnect and reconnect first. Bingo, the option is active!

50
Ideas / Re: Auto-replacement Priorities
« on: January 02, 2017, 01:30:13 AM »
However, when you are going to permanently destroy-replace a processor, doesn't the UI already warn you which item will be removed with a text message?
No, it does not. It tells you what type of the item is going to be discarded. This is sufficient to deduce which one is exactly being meant but parsing this requires some effort. Why put that burden on player and interrupt the smooth game flow? As you can see understanding the algorithm failed in that regard because I am too lazy to check integrities. :)

Having the precise item being pointed out right there in equipment eliminates the whole issue. Improving the message to contain slot letter will also lessen cognitive burden but in my opinion not as well as marking the part directly.

(...) only processors would flash in that case? (Because for any other items to flash first that would mean the swap couldn't take place immediately.)
How about a color change of the item instead of flash so playing speed can be kept uninterrupted? Have it stay red for as long as the confirmation grace period is active. Giving the colon in front of prcessor item a way to stand out more than usual in this case to accentuate its meaning is welcome.

Also agreed about the subject of the topic being really much more about processors than anything else. As you wrote yourself price for mistake in other cases is usually some matter. Unless a compactor is nearby.

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