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Bugs / Going through Waste reshuffles branches
« on: November 17, 2018, 12:36:52 PM »
Hey Kyzrati, I'm really hoping this is intended behaviour and I did not find another weird bug. May wanna have a quick look at the scoresheets, they will show the seed is identical, but when I used a chute on -6 (second run) it reshuffled E to -6, was supposed to be on -4. So basically only seed and route is of interest here.
UPDATE: It is not related to the Chutes. I just played it again, no Waste this time, E is still on -6. Still confused though, as far as I can tell both runs are played on the same game version.
UPDATE: It is not related to the Chutes. I just played it again, no Waste this time, E is still on -6. Still confused though, as far as I can tell both runs are played on the same game version.
2
General Discussion / Cave-Ins
« on: November 01, 2018, 04:45:21 PM »
Again I'm here on the forums, seeking information about something that should follow certain rules, but somehow isn't. Maybe I'm just the unluckiest person in the world when it comes to the games RNGs or I'm again missing something in plain sight. Sorry if I sound frustrated, truth is, I am.
I'm desperately trying to reach different endings, so I went back to a mostly stealth build. Fully sensored you can control, or rather, prevent almost any encounter. But quite often maps have very tricky chokepoints that make it impossible to get through without being spotted. So a decent strategy is to carve you a new route (Launchers, Melee or Strong Weapons). Note I'm not referring to breaking down a single wall, I'm talking about 10+ tile long new routes. This obviously brings the danger of stuff caving-in on you, which is impact damage, a high one at that, meaning it's almost always going to break vital parts (sensors, interpreters etc.), not even to mention the corruption it causes.
I've had single walls (part of room), cave in on me the moment I step on it. Large areas blown up by a launcher do not have a single cave in, the first red flashing tile I step on, bam. I just rage quitted my run after carving out a ~15 long, one wide hallway with a melee weapon, to my surprise I got through and for science I waited ~200 turns if anything would cave in - nothing happened, not one tile. Guess what happened when I went back through it, no cave in, only the one tile I'm hovering over... Don't get me wrong here, I'm not sitting here blaming the game since I know, there is structural scanners. So I started a new game, grabbed one of them scanners, picked up a launcher and went away. Some of the usual light red glowing tiles in danger of caving in are now dark red, indicating they will cave in soon. Waited a bit to verify that, seemed legit. So I went into the carved out area trying if I could control this situation via the scanner. Of about 50 tiles destroyed total, 20ish we're flashing dark red, but still possible to find a "safe route" through it. Worked for about 5 moves, then I stepped on a light flashing tile which should be safe at least for this turn - yea, cave in on me. Oh and btw, all of the dark flashing ones, no cave-in. Then I tried a one-wide hallway like in the run before. According to the scanner everything seemed stable, worked fine for about 15 tiles, destroyed another one, stepped on it, cave-in - no dark red flashing indicating that. Went back the way I came, again no dark red tiles, about 5 moves later, cave-in on the one tile I'm stepping on, not a single other tile though...
Despite my frustration, I'm just trying to understand the mechanics, so I can minimize the danger in future runs. Is there maybe a base chance for something to cave-in if you step on it, even though it should be stable? Does the game maybe take a percentage of available tiles for a cave-in and randomly chooses some that will cave-in? This way it be better to always use a launcher, more tiles available lowers the chance for the one that you walk on to cave-in. I'm pretty sure there is no secure way to tunnel, unless you assimilate an excavator and have him do it. Otherwise it would be way to easy to avoid enemies. But still, if there is, pls tell me. Do wall parts of rooms have a much lower chance of caving-in? It's very rare to actually spectate one of those caving-in, well unless I walk on it... Maybe I am just super unlucky and tend to get hit more than average - I mean even on low chances, it's still possible.
I've also tried using a mining laser on -11 and to my surprise there were areas not flashing at all, and if you dig for 10 tiles, a line of red flashing ones appears again, behind them however no potential cave-in. In the end it looked like an overlay of future rooms, meaning the flashing ones were wall parts. That experience didn't really help to understand how cave-ins actually work.
I'm desperately trying to reach different endings, so I went back to a mostly stealth build. Fully sensored you can control, or rather, prevent almost any encounter. But quite often maps have very tricky chokepoints that make it impossible to get through without being spotted. So a decent strategy is to carve you a new route (Launchers, Melee or Strong Weapons). Note I'm not referring to breaking down a single wall, I'm talking about 10+ tile long new routes. This obviously brings the danger of stuff caving-in on you, which is impact damage, a high one at that, meaning it's almost always going to break vital parts (sensors, interpreters etc.), not even to mention the corruption it causes.
I've had single walls (part of room), cave in on me the moment I step on it. Large areas blown up by a launcher do not have a single cave in, the first red flashing tile I step on, bam. I just rage quitted my run after carving out a ~15 long, one wide hallway with a melee weapon, to my surprise I got through and for science I waited ~200 turns if anything would cave in - nothing happened, not one tile. Guess what happened when I went back through it, no cave in, only the one tile I'm hovering over... Don't get me wrong here, I'm not sitting here blaming the game since I know, there is structural scanners. So I started a new game, grabbed one of them scanners, picked up a launcher and went away. Some of the usual light red glowing tiles in danger of caving in are now dark red, indicating they will cave in soon. Waited a bit to verify that, seemed legit. So I went into the carved out area trying if I could control this situation via the scanner. Of about 50 tiles destroyed total, 20ish we're flashing dark red, but still possible to find a "safe route" through it. Worked for about 5 moves, then I stepped on a light flashing tile which should be safe at least for this turn - yea, cave in on me. Oh and btw, all of the dark flashing ones, no cave-in. Then I tried a one-wide hallway like in the run before. According to the scanner everything seemed stable, worked fine for about 15 tiles, destroyed another one, stepped on it, cave-in - no dark red flashing indicating that. Went back the way I came, again no dark red tiles, about 5 moves later, cave-in on the one tile I'm stepping on, not a single other tile though...
Despite my frustration, I'm just trying to understand the mechanics, so I can minimize the danger in future runs. Is there maybe a base chance for something to cave-in if you step on it, even though it should be stable? Does the game maybe take a percentage of available tiles for a cave-in and randomly chooses some that will cave-in? This way it be better to always use a launcher, more tiles available lowers the chance for the one that you walk on to cave-in. I'm pretty sure there is no secure way to tunnel, unless you assimilate an excavator and have him do it. Otherwise it would be way to easy to avoid enemies. But still, if there is, pls tell me. Do wall parts of rooms have a much lower chance of caving-in? It's very rare to actually spectate one of those caving-in, well unless I walk on it... Maybe I am just super unlucky and tend to get hit more than average - I mean even on low chances, it's still possible.
I've also tried using a mining laser on -11 and to my surprise there were areas not flashing at all, and if you dig for 10 tiles, a line of red flashing ones appears again, behind them however no potential cave-in. In the end it looked like an overlay of future rooms, meaning the flashing ones were wall parts. That experience didn't really help to understand how cave-ins actually work.
3
General Discussion / [SPOILER] RIF related, potential Bugs, Ideas, Thoughts, Stories
« on: October 30, 2018, 02:17:15 PM »
[There's some heavy spoilers, so if you're concerned about that, best stay away.]
Hey everyone,
haven't played since beta5 and just recently got back to Cogmind. There's a couple of things I have questions for and I also wanna share some thoughts, title sorta summarizes it. I'm gonna put it all in here, probably gonna be long, but did not want to open 5 new posts - hope that's ok.
First of all, I love this game, but I also do hate it in a way. Now don't get me wrong, the latter is totally on me. My biggest gripe with the game is, after almost every run I end up with even more questions. I know this is by design and that's absolutely fine, my problem is I like to overthink things, my runs take forever, so investing many hours just to get back to a certain event (and potentially solving or advancing it) is not only discouraging, I honestly just don't have the time. Yet though, I would really really like to see the different endings (only have w0 and w3 so far). I'm mentioning this, because I know you guys don't like to spoil things, Kyz especially but he's excused because dev and all hehe, but for everyone else, SPOIL away - trust me, you'd be doing me a huuuge favor.
Here's two examples:
First run on beta5 I went classic combat, I like to take every branch (or actually have to because of Alert), especially Extensions though. Did that many times before, so I knew my way around. This time however I ended up at Zhirov's place first on -5, he wasn't there and I can't remember if he ever was. Whatever, I read up on the lore again, picked up the artifacts and on the way out I wanted to destroy the Cloak Generator, assuming there may be something hidden. As soon as I hit it, Enhanced Grunts warped in, at first I thought as some sort of defense, but they were friendly. Nobody said anything, I was already very confused, when suddenly the whole place blew up on me. Now here's where the questions start, I've been to this place many times and this never happened. Did the grunts spawn because I was about to leave (RIF was installed btw) or because I hit the Cloaking? Why did everything blow up? Well, I just kept going, Extensions, on -4. I can't seem to manage to keep A7 alive, that I do remember from my beta5 runs, but not the end of the world, because I mainly come here for the Cetus Sentries and Hub. Yea but I'm forgetting something, right? Archives, a place with four sentries, a bunch of Admins and Terminals I can't read. That's at least how I've seen it every single time I've been there before. So I was VERY suprised to actually meet Zhirov and two of his buddies there. He was mumbling something about resetting MAIN.C, which I can sorta understand from the lore, so I guess after this event you're supposed to go to Command and, well, reset it, somehow. Yet again, we got attacked, and I'm like (being full combat), I can help with that. But after a couple of turns he decided to bail and AGAIN, blow everyting up on me. Yes I know he actually warns you and I tried to reach the exit, but on 0x1 treads... well, let's just say I didn't make it in time. But again, I'm left with nothing but questions. Why has this event happened and never before? Kyz mentioned the story part is done since beta1, so I don't think it's anything new, which also means it can't be RIF related. Did I just happen to have a seed with Zhirov before Extensions? Or do you HAVE to destroy the cloaking? Kinda like, his hiding place got compromised and now he's trying desperate measures. Somehow I picked up that one can actually decode the stuff on the Archives terminals, probably another story line? I gotta be honest, I'm not getting it
. But this explains well what my problems are, I have no clue on what to do now, I could only retrace/replay my steps, which means I'd have to play hours again just to get there, on the same seed, which is boring. It's just not my cup of tea - I like when things happen by accident, like with the Sigix Corpse win. And again, please don't take this as negative criticism, all I'm asking for is some insight, so I don't have to "waste" another 10 hours just to verify - ok that's why this happened.
Second one, also heavily RIF related. I like this stuff, well actually only that you can see the alert level now, which gives some really valuable insight. For instance, I was very surprised how much the Alert rises when you get caught fabricating something. Before I was like, yea whatever.... I also found it very amusing how Kyz hacked all hostile robots in his stream and ignored the haulers, and I did the exact opposite of that. So I was wondering what the drawbacks of installing RIF are? Haven't really noticed much in my first run, but Kyz mentioned you cannot get imprinted anymore? Could you get imprinted before? Will Zion be hostile if you go there? I guess Warlord definetely is, which I just found out the hard way. But again, I don't get it. I can understand that Warlord has tech to notice this installment, but thematically, you are not on MAIN.C's side, you are actually using it against it, which brings you, willingly or not, on Warlords side, so getting attacked didn't make much sense to me. Also found it very confusing why the Quarantine entry still purged my corruption, just to shoot me in the face as soon as the doors open. But kinda the same problem here again, this run was purely intended to reach another win, in this case, Warlord's storyline. I know you get attacked there and can't waste to much time, why I went speedy, rather stealthy and along the way had to realize how much I suck at this now, because I've played so much combat. Now I'm sittin' there in front of the proxy caves exit, not knowing what to do with this run, because I can't talk to Warlord, which I assume is what you have to do (I did that before, but never saw him again, which is apparently supposed to happen in research). I hope the small frustration I'm suffering from is at least somewhat understandable by now
To sum up this part: I'd really like to hear how others feel or experienced stuff like that? Did you get another win by accident? Or actually following the lore? - which obvisiously I am absolutely uncabable of haha. I mean hard to come by events or rather, easy to miss stuff also has its advantages, it keeps the game interesting and fresh, even after hours of playing, there's still something to do. While I'm very interested in the lore, I just tend to miss things (or forget about it) because of the way it's presented. Reminds me so much of the souls series, games that I play for their difficulty and atmosphere, but also with great lore, however ingame it usually totally eludes me. I still remember the day when, after years, I read up on its lore and I was like, wow that's really good, I wish I woulda caught something of it when I was actually playing the game
Regarding RIF, I think it's pretty strong and also fun. But going stealth/hacking, which usually means you wanna be fast, meaning you have limited inventory space, not necessarily room for every kind of coupler and now not being able to hack robots the old way anymore, I felt I was kinda limited. Let's say there's a sentry in the way that you don't wanna fight, you can't disable it anymore, even with good hacking. So how about just one type of coupler, with highly different amount of points they can have. You'd still need to find them, very high point ones would be rather rare, you'd need to sacrifice a slot because they are processors, but to make up for not having to bring every kind, point usage for hacking is determined by robot type and rating. Let's say couplers could have up to 100 points, assimilating a scav would only be 10, but for a behemoth you'd have to invest 100. It's just an idea I had, you'd be getting back flexibility, but I can also see that it might be a little too good, cause in that scenario, I don't really see a reason NOT to install RIF anymore.
A couple of things I ran into and unsure about whether it's a bug or not (I'll attach screenshots with log):
- I've had haulers still call for reinforcements even tho I blocked the distress signal before [RIF]
- I had a shutdown sentry call for garrison reinforcements (not sure if that's intented, cause, yea, the robot is turned off
[RIF]
- This random maching, couldn't go back for the exact name, dropped couplers after being destroyed. I'm not 100% on this, but iirc I only fought two sentries and two hackers there, one scav might have died in the process, but where would it have picked up those couplers before, I did not touch a single garrison on that floor. Destroying a garrison also drops couplers, I guess that's intended - sorta the poor man's garrison trip. [RIF]
- I've had Imps doing their attack sound but nothing happened, sometimes they even get destroyed without blowing anything off of you. Is that, well, normal? Can their attack fail/miss? [random]
- I've had reinforcements come from a testing branch exit once, I'm guessing that's intented, even though being a branch, it's a MAIN.C controlled area, so it kinda makes sense I guess. Still wanted to mention it, just in case [random]
Hey everyone,
haven't played since beta5 and just recently got back to Cogmind. There's a couple of things I have questions for and I also wanna share some thoughts, title sorta summarizes it. I'm gonna put it all in here, probably gonna be long, but did not want to open 5 new posts - hope that's ok.
First of all, I love this game, but I also do hate it in a way. Now don't get me wrong, the latter is totally on me. My biggest gripe with the game is, after almost every run I end up with even more questions. I know this is by design and that's absolutely fine, my problem is I like to overthink things, my runs take forever, so investing many hours just to get back to a certain event (and potentially solving or advancing it) is not only discouraging, I honestly just don't have the time. Yet though, I would really really like to see the different endings (only have w0 and w3 so far). I'm mentioning this, because I know you guys don't like to spoil things, Kyz especially but he's excused because dev and all hehe, but for everyone else, SPOIL away - trust me, you'd be doing me a huuuge favor.
Here's two examples:
First run on beta5 I went classic combat, I like to take every branch (or actually have to because of Alert), especially Extensions though. Did that many times before, so I knew my way around. This time however I ended up at Zhirov's place first on -5, he wasn't there and I can't remember if he ever was. Whatever, I read up on the lore again, picked up the artifacts and on the way out I wanted to destroy the Cloak Generator, assuming there may be something hidden. As soon as I hit it, Enhanced Grunts warped in, at first I thought as some sort of defense, but they were friendly. Nobody said anything, I was already very confused, when suddenly the whole place blew up on me. Now here's where the questions start, I've been to this place many times and this never happened. Did the grunts spawn because I was about to leave (RIF was installed btw) or because I hit the Cloaking? Why did everything blow up? Well, I just kept going, Extensions, on -4. I can't seem to manage to keep A7 alive, that I do remember from my beta5 runs, but not the end of the world, because I mainly come here for the Cetus Sentries and Hub. Yea but I'm forgetting something, right? Archives, a place with four sentries, a bunch of Admins and Terminals I can't read. That's at least how I've seen it every single time I've been there before. So I was VERY suprised to actually meet Zhirov and two of his buddies there. He was mumbling something about resetting MAIN.C, which I can sorta understand from the lore, so I guess after this event you're supposed to go to Command and, well, reset it, somehow. Yet again, we got attacked, and I'm like (being full combat), I can help with that. But after a couple of turns he decided to bail and AGAIN, blow everyting up on me. Yes I know he actually warns you and I tried to reach the exit, but on 0x1 treads... well, let's just say I didn't make it in time. But again, I'm left with nothing but questions. Why has this event happened and never before? Kyz mentioned the story part is done since beta1, so I don't think it's anything new, which also means it can't be RIF related. Did I just happen to have a seed with Zhirov before Extensions? Or do you HAVE to destroy the cloaking? Kinda like, his hiding place got compromised and now he's trying desperate measures. Somehow I picked up that one can actually decode the stuff on the Archives terminals, probably another story line? I gotta be honest, I'm not getting it
. But this explains well what my problems are, I have no clue on what to do now, I could only retrace/replay my steps, which means I'd have to play hours again just to get there, on the same seed, which is boring. It's just not my cup of tea - I like when things happen by accident, like with the Sigix Corpse win. And again, please don't take this as negative criticism, all I'm asking for is some insight, so I don't have to "waste" another 10 hours just to verify - ok that's why this happened. Second one, also heavily RIF related. I like this stuff, well actually only that you can see the alert level now, which gives some really valuable insight. For instance, I was very surprised how much the Alert rises when you get caught fabricating something. Before I was like, yea whatever...
. I also found it very amusing how Kyz hacked all hostile robots in his stream and ignored the haulers, and I did the exact opposite of that. So I was wondering what the drawbacks of installing RIF are? Haven't really noticed much in my first run, but Kyz mentioned you cannot get imprinted anymore? Could you get imprinted before? Will Zion be hostile if you go there? I guess Warlord definetely is, which I just found out the hard way. But again, I don't get it. I can understand that Warlord has tech to notice this installment, but thematically, you are not on MAIN.C's side, you are actually using it against it, which brings you, willingly or not, on Warlords side, so getting attacked didn't make much sense to me. Also found it very confusing why the Quarantine entry still purged my corruption, just to shoot me in the face as soon as the doors open. But kinda the same problem here again, this run was purely intended to reach another win, in this case, Warlord's storyline. I know you get attacked there and can't waste to much time, why I went speedy, rather stealthy and along the way had to realize how much I suck at this now, because I've played so much combat. Now I'm sittin' there in front of the proxy caves exit, not knowing what to do with this run, because I can't talk to Warlord, which I assume is what you have to do (I did that before, but never saw him again, which is apparently supposed to happen in research). I hope the small frustration I'm suffering from is at least somewhat understandable by now To sum up this part: I'd really like to hear how others feel or experienced stuff like that? Did you get another win by accident? Or actually following the lore? - which obvisiously I am absolutely uncabable of haha. I mean hard to come by events or rather, easy to miss stuff also has its advantages, it keeps the game interesting and fresh, even after hours of playing, there's still something to do. While I'm very interested in the lore, I just tend to miss things (or forget about it) because of the way it's presented. Reminds me so much of the souls series, games that I play for their difficulty and atmosphere, but also with great lore, however ingame it usually totally eludes me. I still remember the day when, after years, I read up on its lore and I was like, wow that's really good, I wish I woulda caught something of it when I was actually playing the game
Regarding RIF, I think it's pretty strong and also fun. But going stealth/hacking, which usually means you wanna be fast, meaning you have limited inventory space, not necessarily room for every kind of coupler and now not being able to hack robots the old way anymore, I felt I was kinda limited. Let's say there's a sentry in the way that you don't wanna fight, you can't disable it anymore, even with good hacking. So how about just one type of coupler, with highly different amount of points they can have. You'd still need to find them, very high point ones would be rather rare, you'd need to sacrifice a slot because they are processors, but to make up for not having to bring every kind, point usage for hacking is determined by robot type and rating. Let's say couplers could have up to 100 points, assimilating a scav would only be 10, but for a behemoth you'd have to invest 100. It's just an idea I had, you'd be getting back flexibility, but I can also see that it might be a little too good, cause in that scenario, I don't really see a reason NOT to install RIF anymore.
A couple of things I ran into and unsure about whether it's a bug or not (I'll attach screenshots with log):
- I've had haulers still call for reinforcements even tho I blocked the distress signal before [RIF]
- I had a shutdown sentry call for garrison reinforcements (not sure if that's intented, cause, yea, the robot is turned off
[RIF]- This random maching, couldn't go back for the exact name, dropped couplers after being destroyed. I'm not 100% on this, but iirc I only fought two sentries and two hackers there, one scav might have died in the process, but where would it have picked up those couplers before, I did not touch a single garrison on that floor. Destroying a garrison also drops couplers, I guess that's intended - sorta the poor man's garrison trip. [RIF]
- I've had Imps doing their attack sound but nothing happened, sometimes they even get destroyed without blowing anything off of you. Is that, well, normal? Can their attack fail/miss? [random]
- I've had reinforcements come from a testing branch exit once, I'm guessing that's intented, even though being a branch, it's a MAIN.C controlled area, so it kinda makes sense I guess. Still wanted to mention it, just in case [random]
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