Edit: As of Alpha 6, all of these changes have been added to the game. This thread has been locked and further discussion can be continued in the Alpha 6 Discussion (http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=398.0) thread, if necessary.
For the end of the year let's try something a little different!
As per our original discussion (http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=274.0) (there are 3-4 other threads that touched upon it as well), I've rebalanced all the propulsion, done a little testing, and I think overall the new state of things is a big improvement. Overall the mechanics are a bit simpler, there shouldn't be any more oddities, and some strategies might change.
So rather than wait for Alpha 6, if you'd like to try out the new and improved propulsion mechanics you can do this now by modifying your copy of Alpha 5c!
All you need to do is download this experimental patch (http://www.gridsagegames.com/blogs/fileDownload.php?fileName=Alpha5c_EXPERIMENTAL.zip) (3 MB) and copy the contents over your current installation.
Here's the experimental build changelog compared to Alpha 5c:
* MOD: Many propulsion stat values reworked!
* MOD: Simplified propulsion mechanics and all known calculation oddities at very high speeds and overweight situations ironed out
* MOD: Ground-based propulsion (wheels/legs/treads) no longer slows with each additional module
* MOD: Airborne propulsion (hover/flight) no longer has a per-part limit on max speed (is type-based)
* MOD: As a side effect of propulsion changes, most hostiles slightly slower
* MOD: Wheels have an advantage now, but still suffer from low integrity
* MOD: Backup Propulsion I/III/VII nerfed
* MOD: Tread recoil dampening effect reduced to 1 per active tread slot
* FIX: Crash when an assimilated Spotter explored to the edge of the known map [zill]
Any scores uploaded from this build won't go to the high scores list, but I'll have the record sheets for reference if need be. Saves are not compatible. Seeds are. Also, the game will tell you your version is wrong/old, but you can just ignore that.
The idea is that you'll now have to work for speed (no low-propulsion slot fast movers), and at the same time won't be penalized much for having a heavy ground-based build. With heavier/combat builds the overweight threshold is a lot more meaningful than it was because there is no speed penalty until you pass it! Overall heavy Cogminds will be moving faster now, and almost all other robots in the world got a little slower (among them the biggest change was your most common foe, Grunts, which are now 20% slower!).
Any feedback is appreciated!
I like the sound of this!
I knew you would, since it includes one of your primary suggestions ;). My guess is that this will once again make the game somewhat easier, especially for more experienced players. And even inexperienced players will benefit because wheels no longer totally suck :P (and overall everything's a little less complicated without sacrificing too much of the system's original flexibility).
I am 100% in favor of all of this. Gimme treads til I'm dead.
I conducted a scientific experiment to test the balance: goof around and see what happens. I went looking for trouble, found it, but my luck held, so I covered a lot of ground on different propulsion types.
My build was 2 power sources, 3 storage units, 2 heat sinks, 2 extra utilities for misc goodies, and 4 weapons. You know what the rest is.
I wanted to reconsider the matter of armor and force fields in light of the propulsion changes. Joke on me: I found in total one armor and 1 force field across Research and Access. My weapon loadout didn't leave any armor from enemy bots. Instead I used different processors, and just wore things like energy wells when I had nothing better.
I used wheels in Material. They are ubiquitous by destroying workers, and provide a speed between 80 and 100. There's no food clock on Materials so it's not really useful, but it's a viable fallback. Some wheels lift as much as 16. I also used them to patch holes throughout the game. They're harder to mine at higher levels as they tend to get destroyed. They have high coverage and low integrity (centrium wheels only have 100 integrity), so they serve to absorb 2-3 hits and reduce the alert level.
I found a bunch of Improved VTOL in Storage, exited through Recycling and sailed to the second floor of Research on this propulsion. That's exceptional. Flight in general is not really doable for a combat bot, due to the low support and high overweight penalty. Improved VTOL is two notches above the rest, though.
I wanted to go on legs when I lost my VTOLs but I had to use what I found, which is a pack of hover units I got from fallen programmers. Those things were nerfed (10 speed slower), but my takeaway is that they are still useful to have around. Four of them lifts a midweight combat bot on speed 85. It's significantly better than the competition. Plus, they still allow me to survive wastes (barely), although I can feel there is a sinister mind conniving to finally nail me in those so-called traps.
I came very close to dying when I entered a garrison on Access. I had to disperse a crowd of pests and terminators with liberal use of a Ragnarok launcher at point blank. That left me entirely without propulsion. I crawled to leftover flight units and legs, and eventually got back on 8 legs. No venom and fangs, though.
5-6 legs have no problem lifting a midweight bot. Regular legs have speed 120, biometal have speed 110, so my effective speed was somewhere between those two values. That makes retreating under fire a viable but costly option. The impact on the food clock is tolerable but not ideal; it's better to use hover units if possible.
What about treads? Well, they still make good armor. Forget about mobility with those things. At speed 160, they are dog slow. The recoil bonus is spot on.
I spent over 4000 turns on Access, with 3388 influence at the end. I couldn't find the exit. I went on legs exclusively, and wore treads for armor. I died on my feet due to core attrition, with most of my parts. Two targeting computers make a difference.
Spoiler
Cogmind - Alpha 5c +EXPERIMENTAL
Name: Decker
---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (8) 4000
Robots Destroyed (376) 1880
Value Destroyed (18468) 18468
Prototype IDs (35) 700
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (200) 200
TOTAL SCORE: 25248
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 0/1600
Matter 130/300
Energy 230/230
System Corruption 25%
Temperature Cool (15)
Location -1/Access
Parts
-------
Power (2)
Light Quantum Reactor
Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion (12)
Improved Anti-Grav System
Biometal Leg
Heavy Treads
Heavy Treads
Biometal Leg
Compact Heavy Treads
Biometal Leg
Heavy Treads
Flexi-carbon Leg
Utility (7)
Long-range Terrain Scanner
Large Storage Unit
Medium Storage Unit
Medium Storage Unit
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
Weapon (4)
Phase Gun
Heavy Laser
Quantum Rifle
Point Singularity Launcher
Inventory
-----------
Quantum Reactor
Heavy Laser
Gamma Rifle
Heavy Neutron Cannon
Railgun
Graviton Cannon
Advanced Matter Compressor
Advanced Heat Sink
Improved Deep Network Scanner
Improved Deep Network Scanner
Railgun
Peak State
------------
Power
Light Quantum Reactor
Reinforced Quantum Reactor
Propulsion
Medium Treads
Compact Heavy Treads
Myomer Leg
Myomer Leg
Myomer Leg
Medium Treads
Myomer Leg
Myomer Leg
High-density Centrium Leg
Myomer Leg
Myomer Leg
Myomer Leg
Utility
Medium Storage Unit
Medium Storage Unit
Advanced Heat Sink
Large Storage Unit
Advanced Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
Experimental Core Analyzer
Weapon
Graviton Cannon
Gamma Rifle
Nova Cannon
Point Singularity Launcher
[Rating: 163]
Favorites
-----------
Power Light Quantum Reactor
Engine Heavy Ion Engine
Power Core Micro Fission Core
Reactor Light Quantum Reactor
Propulsion Myomer Leg
Treads Improved Treads
Wheel Wheel
Leg Myomer Leg
Hover Unit Improved Anti-Grav System
Flight Unit Improved VTOL Module
Utility Advanced Heat Sink
Device Advanced Heat Sink
Storage High-capacity Storage Unit
Processor Advanced Targeting Computer
Hackware Hacking Suite
Weapon Mini Assault Cannon
Energy Gun Phase Gun
Energy Cannon Nova Cannon
Ballistic Gun Enhanced Autogun
Ballistic Cannon Mini Assault Cannon
Launcher Ragnarok Missile Launcher
Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown 200
Entered Garrisons 200
Classes Destroyed 19
Worker 25
Builder 20
Tunneler 4
Hauler 23
Recycler 28
Mechanic 2
Operator 6
Drone 1
Watcher 7
Swarmer 41
Saboteur 3
Grunt 113
Brawler 10
Duelist 10
Protector 4
Sentry 24
Hunter 11
Programmer 41
Behemoth 3
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 12
Combat Bots Only 10
Matter Collected 13441
Salvage Created 16435
Parts Attached 507
Power 45
Propulsion 164
Utility 121
Weapon 177
Parts Lost 167
Power 17
Propulsion 64
Utility 28
Weapon 58
Average Slot Usage (%) 91
Naked Turns 1
Spaces Moved 6553
Fastest Speed (%) 322
Average Speed (%) 108
Slowest Speed (%) 5
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 0
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 139
Greatest Overweight (x) 40
Average Overweight (x) 1
Largest Inventory 28
Most Items Carried 28
Average Items Carried 18
Core Damage Taken 2532
Average Core Remaining (%) 83
Depth 10 Exit 51
Depth 9 Exit 79
Depth 8 Exit 83
Depth 6 Exit 100
Depth 5 Exit 91
Depth 4 Exit 98
Depth 3 Exit 100
Depth 2 Exit 63
Volleys Fired 742
Largest 4
Hottest 400
Shots Fired 2157
Gun 1147
Cannon 936
Launcher 74
Special 0
Kinetic 937
Thermal 921
Explosive 71
Electromagnetic 228
Shots Hit Robots 1371
Core Hits 715
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 0
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 64161
Projectiles 40449
Explosions 23712
Melee 0
Ramming 0
Kinetic 20380
Thermal 16371
Explosive 22985
Electromagnetic 4425
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Self-Inflicted Damage 1554
Shots 23
Rammed 0
Highest Temperature 534
Average Temperature 92
Shutdowns 8
Energy Bleed 10
Interference 15
Matter Decay 1
Short Circuit 2
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 25
Average Corruption 12
Message Errors 42
Parts Rejected 18
Data loss (map) 41
Data loss (database) 25
Misfires 11
Misdirections 26
Targeting Errors 172
Weapon Failures 29
Depth 2 End 22
Haulers Intercepted 23
Robots Corrupted 3
Robots Melted 1
Power Chain Reactions 0
Tactical Retreats 25
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 0
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 1
Indirectly 1
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machine Familiarity 23
Terminals 22
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 1
Machines Hacked 23
Terminals 22
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 1
Total Hacks 72
Successful 26
Failed 46
Catastrophic 17
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 38
Unauthorized 14
Terminals 71
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 1
Terminal Hacks 20
Record 0
Part Schematic 0
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 2
Open Door 4
Level Access Points 3
Branch Access Points 2
Emergency Access Points 0
Machine Index 0
Terminal Index 1
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Garrison Index 0
Alert Level 2
Unreport Threat 6
Locate Traps 0
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 0
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 0
Hacking Detections 35
Full Trace Events 3
Feedback Events 1
Feedback Corruption 1
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Garrisons Disabled 2
Garrisons Compromised 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Built 0
Total Part Build Rating 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 0
Part Repair Time 0
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Scanalyzed 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 10
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 3
Hacks Repelled 1
Total Allies 22
Largest Group 16
Highest-Rated Group 213
Highest-Rated Ally 52
Total Orders 1
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 1
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 0
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 166
Total Damage 2815
Kills 29
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 3388
Average Influence 847
Final Influence 3388
Maximum Alert Level 5
Low Security (%) 26
Level 1 16
Level 2 16
Level 3 15
Level 4 5
Level 5 18
Squads Dispatched 58
Investigation 10
Extermination 15
Reinforcement 9
Assault 19
Garrison 5
Exploration Rate (%) 17
Regions Visited 14
Garrisons Visited 1
Relays Disabled 1
Generators Disabled 1
Turns Passed 10988
Depth 11 62
Depth 10 711
Depth 9 982
Depth 8 1729
Depth 6 276
Depth 5 566
Depth 4 245
Depth 3 152
Depth 2 1914
Depth 1 4351
Scrapyard 62
Materials 1712
Factory 1087
Research 2066
Access 2907
Storage 1295
Recycling 415
Garrison 1444
Prototype IDs
---------------
Heavy Ion Engine
Cold Fusion Reactor
High-density Centrium Leg
Experimental Gravmag System
Improved VTOL Module
Improved Q-Thruster
Improved Medium Laser
Heavy Particle Gun
Heavy Gatling Laser
Heavy Dispersion Rifle
Improved EM Shotgun
Heavy EM Shotgun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Enhanced Autogun
Mini Assault Cannon
Anti-matter Cannon
Heavy Fusion Cannon
Compact Linear Accelerator
Graviton Cannon
Precision Rocket Launcher
Scatter Rocket Array
Ragnarok Missile Launcher
Point Singularity Launcher
Guided Micro-nuke Launcher
Advanced EMP Blaster
Experimental Cooling System
Advanced Matter Compressor
Experimental Terrain Scan Processor
Experimental Thermal Shield
Thermal Defense Suite
EM Disruption Field
Experimental Melee Analysis Suite
Experimental Core Analyzer
Advanced Overload Amplifier
Advanced Overload Regulator
Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None
Game
------
Seed: 1451180387
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 218 min
Sessions: 3
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 29
ASCII: 0
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 66x50
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122489
Overall I think propulsion is balanced. The only thing I would change is to make legs and treads 10 speed faster. They seem to be a little too sluggish currently.
Excellent, thanks for going through that and reporting back. Very good run.
Flight is certainly not viable for prolonged combat--that's the stealth approach; and treads are for less flexible super heavy combat builds since they can support plenty more non-propulsion slots than you're using with your mobile combat setups.
Legs have a slightly slower base speed than they did before, but only because you'd always be even slower than that when (inevitably) using multiple legs, so in practice they've gotten a good bit faster. I'd consider giving them a -10 later on if we need some way to slightly improve Cogmind's mid-range combat mobility, though I think it's probably good enough for now.
Other opinions and experiences welcome :)
I didn't do a full on propulsion test but I can make comments on a very specific playstyle with legs(6 prop, 2 power sources, 3 weapons).
I played quite a few runs with the experimental prop build and must say that legs feel super viable without the postive mod/extra stat . I run a cookie-cutter combat build and started most runs by evolving 2 propulsion slots first and going legs. I must say that this supports the early game storage units really well. I was able to support about 3 hcp units and lrg storage unit in the late game with no problems while remaining agile with about 6 propulsion slots.
Another thing that I noticed is that legs being a propulsion option frees up a
lot of inventory space. You don't have to hoard legs, as opposed to hover units, as they are ubiquitous. You also don't have to hoard armor as legs soak up a decent amount of damage (can see the wisdom in decker's playstyle). The only other utility that is
really essential is heat sink and they are commonplace. As such, my inventory was filled up with weapons and maybe a couple of power sources for back up.
Most of my runs ended in -4 and one of them in -3. I am fairly certain that this playstyle would be even more viable once the hacking/processor changes come in. Having 6 propulsion slots provides a lot of pseudo-armor and increases the life-span of fairly high integrity items like weapons and storage units quite well. But, the low integrity support utilities like targeting comps, analyzers and sensor arrays don't benefit that much without actual armor and get blown off. As such, it is hard to extract value out of the remaining slots as nothing stays there for long and you end up filling it up with low impact utilities. So, I think the hacking and coverage changes should push this build over the top as it supplies the necessary control and combat tools which is required to make this build works.
As it stands, I love the propulsion changes. ;D. Here is the scoresheet of my last attempt if you want to get a better sense of my playstyle.
Spoiler
Cogmind - Alpha 5c +EXPERIMENTAL
Name: Sherlockkat
---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (7) 3500
Robots Destroyed (221) 1105
Value Destroyed (9725) 9725
Prototype IDs (13) 260
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (0) 0
TOTAL SCORE: 14590
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 0/1300
Matter 170/300
Energy 8/50
System Corruption 23%
Temperature Cool (0)
Location -3/Research
Parts
-------
Power (3)
Propulsion (6)
Utility (8)
Stasis Canceller
Weapon (4)
Inventory
-----------
Improved Heat Sink
Deep Network Scanner
Peak State
------------
Power
Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Anti-Matter Reactor
Micro Fission Core
Propulsion
Myomer Leg
Flexi-carbon Leg
Advanced Myomer Leg
Myomer Leg
Myomer Leg
Myomer Leg
Utility
Advanced Heat Sink
High-capacity Storage Unit
High-capacity Storage Unit
High-capacity Storage Unit
Large Storage Unit
Core Analyzer
Advanced Heat Sink
Quantum Shroud
Weapon
KE Penetrator
Dispersion Rifle
Flak Gun
Railgun
[Rating: 111]
Favorites
-----------
Power Light Nuclear Core
Engine Improved Ion Engine
Power Core Light Nuclear Core
Reactor Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion Flexi-carbon Leg
Treads Light Treads
Wheel Wheel
Leg Flexi-carbon Leg
Utility High-capacity Storage Unit
Device Advanced Heat Sink
Storage High-capacity Storage Unit
Processor Core Analyzer
Hackware Improved Footprint Analyzer
Protection Light Armor Plating
Weapon Improved Assault Rifle
Energy Gun Heavy EM Shotgun
Energy Cannon Heavy Particle Cannon
Ballistic Gun Improved Assault Rifle
Ballistic Cannon Light Cannon
Launcher Missile Launcher
Stats
-------
Bonus Breakdown 0
Classes Destroyed 15
Worker 15
Builder 7
Tunneler 2
Hauler 2
Recycler 17
Watcher 3
Swarmer 38
Grunt 62
Brawler 2
Duelist 1
Protector 1
Sentry 28
Hunter 14
Programmer 28
Behemoth 1
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 8
Combat Bots Only 7
Matter Collected 6570
Salvage Created 11861
Parts Attached 254
Power 41
Propulsion 78
Utility 55
Weapon 80
Parts Lost 154
Power 27
Propulsion 44
Utility 35
Weapon 48
Average Slot Usage (%) 93
Naked Turns 11
Spaces Moved 5827
Fastest Speed (%) 200
Average Speed (%) 71
Slowest Speed (%) 5
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 3
Cave-ins Triggered 1
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 143
Greatest Overweight (x) 37
Average Overweight (x) 1
Largest Inventory 38
Most Items Carried 34
Average Items Carried 22
Core Damage Taken 2958
Average Core Remaining (%) 66
Depth 10 Exit 100
Depth 9 Exit 75
Depth 8 Exit 23
Depth 7 Exit 31
Depth 6 Exit 74
Depth 5 Exit 94
Depth 4 Exit 67
Volleys Fired 676
Largest 4
Hottest 376
Shots Fired 1651
Gun 1402
Cannon 226
Launcher 23
Special 0
Kinetic 1117
Thermal 300
Explosive 23
Electromagnetic 211
Shots Hit Robots 1105
Core Hits 545
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 0
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 25483
Projectiles 22978
Explosions 2464
Melee 0
Ramming 41
Kinetic 15401
Thermal 5820
Explosive 1960
Electromagnetic 2261
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Self-Inflicted Damage 297
Shots 7
Rammed 3
Highest Temperature 470
Average Temperature 89
Shutdowns 4
Energy Bleed 2
Interference 10
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 1
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 1
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 23
Average Corruption 4
Message Errors 41
Parts Rejected 15
Data loss (map) 38
Data loss (database) 24
Misfires 12
Misdirections 15
Targeting Errors 58
Weapon Failures 15
Depth 8 End 2
Depth 7 End 5
Depth 6 End 3
Depth 5 End 6
Depth 4 End 11
Haulers Intercepted 2
Robots Corrupted 0
Robots Melted 0
Power Chain Reactions 0
Tactical Retreats 14
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 0
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machine Familiarity 18
Terminals 17
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 1
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Machines Hacked 18
Terminals 17
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 1
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Total Hacks 44
Successful 14
Failed 30
Catastrophic 13
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 25
Unauthorized 5
Terminals 42
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 2
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Garrison Access 0
Terminal Hacks 12
Record 1
Part Schematic 0
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 1
Prototype ID Bank 0
Open Door 3
Level Access Points 0
Branch Access Points 0
Emergency Access Points 0
Machine Index 0
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Garrison Index 0
Alert Level 1
Unreport Threat 6
Locate Traps 0
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 0
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 0
Hacking Detections 18
Full Trace Events 2
Feedback Events 0
Feedback Corruption 0
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Garrisons Disabled 0
Garrisons Compromised 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Built 0
Total Part Build Rating 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 0
Part Repair Time 0
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Scanalyzed 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 1
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 0
Largest Group 0
Highest-Rated Group 0
Highest-Rated Ally 0
Total Orders 0
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 0
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 670
Average Influence 190
Final Influence 423
Maximum Alert Level 2
Low Security (%) 60
Level 1 34
Level 2 5
Level 3 0
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 44
Investigation 2
Extermination 15
Reinforcement 14
Assault 2
Garrison 11
Exploration Rate (%) 24
Regions Visited 10
Garrisons Visited 0
Relays Disabled 0
Generators Disabled 0
Turns Passed 11429
Depth 11 45
Depth 10 243
Depth 9 794
Depth 8 2589
Depth 7 2868
Depth 6 1379
Depth 5 917
Depth 4 1467
Depth 3 1127
Scrapyard 45
Materials 1651
Factory 6631
Research 1127
Storage 1975
Prototype IDs
---------------
Advanced Myomer Leg
Improved Medium Laser
Heavy Particle Gun
Improved Spread Laser
Heavy Wave Gun
Heavy EM Shotgun
Improved Lightning Gun
Advanced Beam Cannon
Improved Assault Rifle
Precision Assault Rifle
Advanced EMP Blaster
Quantum Shroud
Improved Footprint Analyzer
Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None
Game
------
Seed: 1451465571
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 95 min
Sessions: 11
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 82
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Movement: Numpad
Fullscreen: 0
Font: 12/Terminus
Map View: 83x54
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I am going to be taking a break from playing cogmind for a while in order to work on my thesis. I probably wont' play until mid Feb (maybe lurk around the forums though). I have been having super fun with this game for a while now. Keep up the good work and all the best :)!!
Thanks for the run, Sherlockkat.
Pretty well-rounded build, and interesting that you immediately start with all that extra propulsion, though I can see how it ensures you a much less risky passage (in the early floors where core integrity is more precious) by standing in as makeshift protection.
I'm mostly a leg Cogmind, and my testing experience was similar to yours. I'm also wondering what kind of take speed winners will have on this.
Man, you guys go crazy on the storage :P (Really makes me want to get the large inventory management UI in place, but I've had to put that off for now until a decision is made about what to do for a possible condensed UI mode.)
Good luck and see you when you get back!
QuotePretty well-rounded build, and interesting that you immediately start with all that extra propulsion, though I can see how it ensures you a much less risky passage (in the early floors where core integrity is more precious) by standing in as makeshift protection.
I don't have much use for any other slots in the early game. Materials isn't threatening enough to invest in weapons. None of the early game utilities are very exciting. I can put the propulsion slots to immediate use and as you pointed out, they soak up good deal of damage. They also enables my hoarding addiction in the early game by increasing weight capacity :P.
QuoteMan, you guys go crazy on the storage :P
My current working theory is that "well-rounded builds require larger inventories". For eg, When you have 10 weapon slots and you lose a weapon, that represents a 10% drop in fire power. If you have 3 weapon slots and you lose a weapon, that is a 33% drop. In that case, you need to be really efficient when it comes to replacing parts in order to avoid serious performance deterioration. This calls for a well-stocked inventory. Meanwhile, a cogmind with 10 weapon slots doesn't have to fret about weapon loss that much as its damage output isn't suffering that much. So, it can get away with under investing on storage. I haven't thought this through completely, but it feels right. I dunno... :-\
The problem is that for a single slot, nothing much can compare to the utility of granting another 10 spare parts in your inventory.
That's a good way to put it, both of you.
Maybe all storage should be multi-slot items ;). Realistically, yes, and it would solve much of the balance issues there as well, though I don't really want to do that because multi-slot is saved for a small subset of parts rather than commonly used ones.
I wonder if under the rebalanced propulsion mechanics in this build, where being overweight is an even clearer threshold than before, if I shouldn't just further increase the mass of larger units disproportionally. I know you argued against this before, zxc. I don't want to completely nerf the ability to carry more, just try to find a better balance.
However, it's hard to gauge because there's also the case that the current situation reflects the way in which many of you prefer to play, carrying large inventories to have spares whenever necessary, even though it's not entirely necessary since limiting yourself to a single storage unit (my strategy) means you can focus on boosting your capabilities with utilities, which allow parts to survive confrontations more frequently, either through superior defense or superior offense.
I also can't say that increased mass would necessarily have a huge impact, because it would just encourage Decker's propulsion focused strategy with which heavier Storage doesn't mean much, and making it heavy enough to matter in that situation would probably put it outside the reach of even regular builds.
Does anyone see a need to fix anything about this?* It might just be a case of preferences.
*Aside from the need for a large inventory management system, which I've mentioned we'll get eventually, though for now we have sorting and the new automated system to help out.
The most obvious nerf to storage to me seems to be the one you proposed one time: removing HCP storage units. This reduces the slot efficiency of storage units but doesn't mess with the balance of the remaining ones.
Storage Rebalancing Ideas Thread? :P
Quote from: zxc on December 31, 2015, 12:20:28 AM
Storage Rebalancing Ideas Thread? :P
We already have one (http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=289.0)! ;)
And that proposal was actually
yours :P. I have had that one listed as a possibility under my notes for this topic ever since you mentioned it, and think it's a rather good one.
That topic in general is one of a couple of "unfinished threads" where I never really felt the conversation came to a satisfactory conclusion, but partially because I wasn't yet in a position to confirm a solution. It's even been sitting in my inbox bookmarked for later attention (in addition to being on my TODO list, where almost everything we talk about here goes). It was another of the "ran out of time for Alpha 5 maybe Alpha 6" things.
I know I've been an advocate of that option but I'm sure I originally took the idea off you somewhere... before that...
I can get behind removing Hcp Storage units. Another approach might be nerfing their integrity slightly. Storage is so durable that they might as well be a permanent fixture to your core. I might worry a lil bit about putting all my eggs in the storage basket if they are bit more fragile. As it stands, they take quite a bit of pounding.
I personally feel the right way to nerf storage is to actually buff other utilities. So, I am inclined to wait until the hacking changes are in before making up my mind on this. I am really interested in the relation between low coverage of the processors and their life span. If I can get the combat utilities to last for a floor or two in a controlled combat environment, that would be great. This would dramatically improve their value relative to the storage units and we might start ditching them in favor of immediate combat efficiency. As it stands, I don't care what gets blown off as long as I can replace it and combat utils are not easily replaced.
Storage Unit integrity is extremely high compared to other items because it's very annoying to lose them. That combined with their unusually low coverage means they last a long while. So they're intentionally designed to be more or less a permanent fixture, while still not being absolutely permanent so you may have to occasionally deal with loss (but usually not more than once or twice in a good run). Note that unlike other parts, Storage Units are also immune to many negative effects like critical strikes, severing, Saboteur attacks, etc. The loss of Storage for a build/strategy that relies on it can mean the sudden end of a run if it happens too often, so I like it the way it is. (Note that it has gradually evolved to its current state--in early Alpha it was a more "normal" part and was a source of many problems.)
I do believe the changes to processors will have a significant positive impact on their longevity, which is good because increasing their capabilities is not going to happen ;)