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Cogmind => Ideas => Topic started by: b_sen on June 15, 2018, 11:43:17 AM

Title: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: b_sen on June 15, 2018, 11:43:17 AM
Some roguelikes with more complex identification minigames have both formal identification systems (where the game explicitly tells the player the name of the item after some work) and informal identification systems (where the game does not explicitly tell the player the item name for their work, but the player knows the name or at least under what circumstances to use the item).  These games can allow players to "tag" informally identified items with the player's suspected item name, or other very short notes such as "throw at enemy".  (Without telling them if they're wrong, of course!)

Cogmind by and large works very well with only formal identification, in that the identification tradeoffs are interesting and well-balanced.  (Do you want to risk that prototype being faulty?  Do you want to spend time and matter putting on that unknown item to restore your memory of what it is?  Do you want to spend time and inventory space taking either to a Scanalyzer?)  However, there are a few cases in which sufficiently experienced players will both already know what an item is without formally identifying it and run the risk of confusing it with another item unless they spend resources on a formal identification.


I understand why art isn't shown for unidentified items, and the costs of identifying do make sense in most cases, but in these instances it makes more sense to me that the Cogmind would be able to tag an item appearance with a short name and recognize that same appearance later, even though that appearance is not itself shown to the player.

I also understand if this would be difficult or impossible to implement, but I thought I'd bring it up. :)
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: DDarkray on June 15, 2018, 02:28:31 PM
Contains minor spoiler based on AA:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: b_sen on June 15, 2018, 03:42:35 PM
Thanks for reminding me of that thread!  That would indeed be workable but annoying (against the principle that players should not be driven to external tools for optimal play), and AAs are in fact the only place where the problem presents itself (prototypes all either falling under the normal risk-reward system of formal identification or being guaranteed good and thus safe to put on).

Player-assigned tags would definitely be nicer, though may or may not be much harder to implement.  I think it's a new text field attached to each one (directly or indirectly) either way, and the question is the difficulty of letting the player specify its contents, though I'm not sure if that's the case in the underlying architecture.
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: Kyzrati on June 16, 2018, 05:26:32 PM
Yeah this has been discussed several times before (this is the third thread on the forums here alone :P), and I have many notes of my own on it as well, including possible solutions, but none of the solutions has seemed great, or worth implementing.

I've played classic roguelikes that have tagging so I'm familiar with that functionality, but in those games there is a strong need for it, whereas in Cogmind it only matters in extremely few cases, suggesting it would be better to find an alternative solution if possible.

Tagging would probably be fairly "easy" to add as far as features go, it just seems like overkill for how rare the need is...
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: Kyzrati on June 21, 2018, 06:17:53 AM
Needed something else showy to fool around with this week, so I added this this evening (complete with silly examples :P)

(https://i.imgur.com/9DgQNdR.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/tl19sfM.gif)
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: DDarkray on June 21, 2018, 07:16:00 AM
:OOOOOOOOOOO

*Big Thumbs Up*
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: b_sen on June 21, 2018, 11:20:19 PM
:OOOOOOOOOOO

*Big Thumbs Up*

Seconded!

Thanks for the quick feature add :D
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: Kyzrati on June 22, 2018, 12:15:13 AM
Well I dunno about "quick," considering this is the third time it's been requested over the years and I've had notes on it sitting low on the priority list, but yeah your thread bumped the idea up much higher than it was! Sometimes little things can get moved up if the time is just right :)
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: Raine on July 18, 2018, 10:35:37 PM
A slightly related problem is being able to identify prototypes based off leaked information while inspecting them. I can tell what a thing is gonna be before I scan or equip most of the time by just examining it and looking at the mass.l
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: Kyzrati on July 18, 2018, 10:55:47 PM
I mean technically we could remove mass info from the prototype knowledge to deal with that, but it's there for a reason, specifically that it could be extra annoying without it--lots more wasted carries for anyone who doesn't generally ID immediately.
Title: Re: Informal Item Identification Tags
Post by: b_sen on July 29, 2018, 12:13:15 AM
A slightly related problem is being able to identify prototypes based off leaked information while inspecting them. I can tell what a thing is gonna be before I scan or equip most of the time by just examining it and looking at the mass.l

I see that as you knowing the variety of parts well and having a mostly full gallery, not a problem. :P