Cogmind > Ideas

defaults

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qalnor:
- for alpha imo you should think about having report errors be the standard default, or at least prompt us to choose right off
- name would be a nice thing to be prompted to choose

Changes to defaults in general that I'd make:

-autoascend=on should go off imo
-if not for being part of the tutorial that leads players to it I'd say auto-enable parts should probably be on by default (it may rob players of volition slightly unlike autoascend=on new players will always want it on)

Personally I'd also max out on UI elements as well as a default but that may just be me. I know I have a bias on that one so I won't really make that a suggestion as much as a stating of personal preferences that should probably be ignored.

Kyzrati:

--- Quote from: qalnor on November 22, 2016, 04:07:02 PM ---- for alpha imo you should think about having report errors be the standard default, or at least prompt us to choose right off
- name would be a nice thing to be prompted to choose

--- End quote ---
With Cogmind I wanted to avoid all modal barriers to starting the game--you watch the intro and *bam* there you are in the world. So that means no start menu, and no prompts.

Specifically with regard to reporting, all online features that send data are disabled by default because some people are extremely sensitive to that sort of thing.


--- Quote from: qalnor on November 22, 2016, 04:07:02 PM ----autoascend=on should go off imo

--- End quote ---
I did that for beginners, because the goal of the defaults is to require as few commands from the player as possible, to keep things simple until they've got the basics down.

And actually, in the end many experts prefer this option to be on because it saves you a turn if you're fleeing pursuers that could otherwise fire on you before you've ascended (which would take a second action after actually moving onto the exit itself).


--- Quote from: qalnor on November 22, 2016, 04:07:02 PM ----if not for being part of the tutorial that leads players to it I'd say auto-enable parts should probably be on by default (it may rob players of volition slightly unlike autoascend=on new players will always want it on)

--- End quote ---
Yep, this one again is for beginners, as it's a way to teach them how the system works. It totally should be on by default, but if this happens automatically, new players will be less likely to quickly figure out that parts can be toggled, and must be active to work. (I'd love if it were on by default, because then I could free up the 'p' key for something more valuable/frequently used, but alas, it's too important that it remains as it is now.)


--- Quote from: qalnor on November 22, 2016, 04:07:02 PM ---Personally I'd also max out on UI elements as well as a default but that may just be me.

--- End quote ---
Yeah, don't want to overwhelm new players. Even without all the extras, it's overwhelming to many! I'm trying to set all the defaults in a way that will ease players into the game.

So thanks for the suggestions, though I'm looking at this from a very different perspective than a regular player might! Remember that with Cogmind I'm also trying to get people who've never even played a roguelike before to enjoy it. They can gradually work their way into the options menu and its many secrets :)

qalnor:

--- Quote from: Kyzrati on November 22, 2016, 07:28:45 PM ---With Cogmind I wanted to avoid all modal barriers to starting the game--you watch the intro and *bam* there you are in the world. So that means no start menu, and no prompts.

--- End quote ---

Interesting point. I mean it's obviously your call but on this:


--- Quote from: Kyzrati on November 22, 2016, 07:28:45 PM ---Specifically with regard to reporting, all online features that send data are disabled by default because some people are extremely sensitive to that sort of thing.

--- End quote ---

I personally think that getting error reports is worth breaking that goal during alpha. The sensitivity issue is why I went with the prompting as an alternative suggestion here. I mean, I we did pay to be in this alpha, but I've always felt that if I'm going to participate in an alpha or beta I need to drop the consumer attitude and participate. Mind you, this is honestly the first time I've ever paid to be part of an alpha so maybe I'm just not familiar with how much of a headache it would be to expect players to send logs or opt out.


--- Quote ---And actually, in the end many experts prefer this option to be on because it saves you a turn if you're fleeing pursuers that could otherwise fire on you before you've ascended (which would take a second action after actually moving onto the exit itself).

--- End quote ---

Yeah, tbh for beginners though I think the frustration of finding out they don't get to pick up their phat lewts is more of a disappointment than the possibility of dying because they had to take an extra turn (which honestly I doubt they'd even think about until they are expert at the game). Speaking as someone who is barely past being a beginner -- I die a lot, and it's fun -- if I ever die because I'm on the stairs that will be the day I swap that option, but for now my deaths seem to focus more on the being greedy and careless end of the spectrum. 

That said, one possibility that popped into my head when you mentioned that reasoning.. Perhaps allow players to use <> from any space around the passage as long as there isn't anything in the way.


--- Quote ---Yep, this one again is for beginners, as it's a way to teach them how the system works. It totally should be on by default, but if this happens automatically, new players will be less likely to quickly figure out that parts can be toggled, and must be active to work. (I'd love if it were on by default, because then I could free up the 'p' key for something more valuable/frequently used, but alas, it's too important that it remains as it is now.)
--- End quote ---

Yeah, don't disagree.


--- Quote ---So thanks for the suggestions, though I'm looking at this from a very different perspective than a regular player might! Remember that with Cogmind I'm also trying to get people who've never even played a roguelike before to enjoy it. They can gradually work their way into the options menu and its many secrets :)

--- End quote ---

I will say one of the things I like most about this game is that while from a rogue-like players perspective it it clearly a roguelike, it almost feels like you had at most heard rumors that roguelikes existed and you researched them enough to hear about permadeath, but then got bored and just decided to make one. That's a gross exaggeration, but it doesn't feel as highly derivative. I've played some great roguelikes that were incredibly innovative, but I this is the first that I can recall playing that I can really see myself forgetting that I'm actually playing a roguelike.

Kyzrati:

--- Quote from: qalnor on November 23, 2016, 05:25:58 PM ---I personally think that getting error reports is worth breaking that goal during alpha.

--- End quote ---
I would agree with that sentiment for most games, actually. Though in the case of Cogmind, there are an extremely low number of errors, quite different from what you find in a lot of other alpha games. That's because most of my testing is done via automation before I release an update, so I can catch and fix stuff much more quickly than players could, and most of that stuff never reaches players in the first place. I can have the game play itself thousands of times under extreme conditions, and this tends to weed out pretty much all the bad stuff so that only a subset of bugs--stuff that it really takes a human to find and describe--actually make it through, and those are the kinds of things that wouldn't appear in an error report anyway.

Thanks for your unprecedented jump into alpha, though :D


--- Quote from: qalnor on November 23, 2016, 05:25:58 PM ---I die a lot, and it's fun -- if I ever die because I'm on the stairs that will be the day I swap that option, but for now my deaths seem to focus more on the being greedy and careless end of the spectrum. 

--- End quote ---
Once you play more you'll see a greater number of instances where, yes, you would very well die if you stepped on the stairs and it didn't take you out immediately (or--slightly less anoying--you get another part shot off while running).

Narrow escapes are a thing; someone even won the game one turn before they would've died, and I've had it happen to me several times in various floors.

That said, just yesterday we were discussing this in the chat room, thinking about other modifications like removing it as an option altogether, and have it permanently on. I think that would be ideal, if not for the fact that under some scenarios you might have no choice but to step on an exit for whatever reason.


--- Quote from: qalnor on November 23, 2016, 05:25:58 PM ---That said, one possibility that popped into my head when you mentioned that reasoning.. Perhaps allow players to use <> from any space around the passage as long as there isn't anything in the way.

--- End quote ---
Another interesting idea! We came up with several others as well, but I don't see any that are absolutely better than the status quo in every way, so I'm not really convinced a change is necessary here at this point. Maybe in the future, we'll see. My opinions on usability and options do shift as the player base grows and a greater number of different types of players join us.


--- Quote from: qalnor on November 23, 2016, 05:25:58 PM ---I will say one of the things I like most about this game is that while from a rogue-like players perspective it it clearly a roguelike, it almost feels like you had at most heard rumors that roguelikes existed and you researched them enough to hear about permadeath, but then got bored and just decided to make one. That's a gross exaggeration, but it doesn't feel as highly derivative. I've played some great roguelikes that were incredibly innovative, but I this is the first that I can recall playing that I can really see myself forgetting that I'm actually playing a roguelike.

--- End quote ---
Hehe, interesting observation! I did find roguelikes a lot later than many contemporary developers did (2011, a year or so before the first version of Cogmind), during a period where I spent a lot of time playing DCSS and (to a lesser extent) about a dozen other roguelikes popular at the time. By then I'd already been playing everything except roguelikes for a couple decades, and have design influences from all over the place, but my primary goal in game development (before even finding roguelikes) was to create something quite different from what already exists. Games started to really feel samey to me after such a long time playing them. Just reskins of previous concepts with an occasional new idea mixed in... So now I make my own entertainment, and others have joined along for the ride ;)

zxc:

--- Quote from: Kyzrati on November 23, 2016, 09:15:47 PM ---Narrow escapes are a thing; someone even won the game one turn before they would've died, and I've had it happen to me several times in various floors.

--- End quote ---

Actually, now I have both won the game one turn before death and lost the game one turn before winning.  >:(

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