And I was just about to go to bed...Haha, there's always time for one more run! But you do have two weeks to show your stuff.
I always release/announce things in the US late evening since that's my morning over here :PI noticed that. =P Where are you located, if you don't mind me asking?
Note that score is not everything when it comes to placing high on the Best Escapes list--a fast stealth build has as good a chance of topping the list as a high-scoring blast-em-all-to-hell combat build.So if you're more experienced/better at stealth or more confident you can win with that approach, don't forget to try it at some point, too!
Really, really looking forward to this. I'll probably have to buy the ladyfriend something shiny and nice to make up for the amount of time I'm going to be glued to my computer. Roguelike tournaments are close to my favorite thing (see e.g. http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/players/happylisk.html). Thanks for setting this up K!Wow, Happylisk, you're one hell of a DCSS player! Amazing runs, and you averaged like 3-5 hours per day for the duration, hehe :). Thanks for linking that, because I can see it would be nice to later on have a full table of basic stats/highlights for every single run. Added to notes.
I do wonder what the criteria will be for 'Best Escapes'.Only some of the scoring criteria for some parts of the event will be revealed while it's in progress, because a number of them could be too easily gamed, and I also hope that beginners with their "unique" styles might be able to take some achievements, for example ;). As for Best Escapes, we'll see--I want to let it run for a while and watch how the leaderboards evolve first. Just play your best for now!
I think stealth runs are highly streakable but combat runs are more RNG heavy. I found it more tense than my combat run, I think because stealth runs are more tactical while combat runs are more strategic (with a touch of RNG). Often during my last combat run I would be in a situation where the optimal action was reasonably obvious and it was a matter of watching events unfold (always badly).I agree with your observations. With stealth it's about controlling the situation before it even escalates, while the combat approach is more at the mercy of whatever is thrown at you. Usually, anyway. Theoretically with the right hacking and possibly a hybrid sensor approach combat builds can also exert control over the situation/environment. Because I would like all seeds to be 100% winnable by expert players (using either strategy), once the other branches and rest of the content is in we can look to making sure the overall balance is right. For that I'll be needing the expertise of more combat winners :P (more later than now, because as we know there are many new things to come).
How do I tell if my client is configured properly to submit my games with my forum name?Do a test game (just start Cogmind then quit the run if you haven't done any since setting the name), then go to your scores folder. In addition to a bunch of of text files that are called Anonymous[bunch of numbers], you should see one that says [your name][bunch of numbers]!
I can see the files for my games there with my name on them. So can I assume that if [Upload Scores] is set to "On" that I am successfully making entries for the challenge?Yes, you're set! And that made me laugh, thanks. xD Hang in there! After being so wildly successful on those back-to-back runs I'd forgotten the mundane dangers of Materials.
You think you have no idea what you're doing. You should see my games. I'm always limping around with shot up parts slapping anything on my character that will take damage as I try to hobble towards the exit. My strategic approach to the game is "Oooh, colors!"
While zxc escapes twice, I wake up early for some cogminding and put up some of the worst scores I've had in a good while. Maybe more luck tonight.
Cogmind - Alpha 3c
Name: zzxc
---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (0) 0
Robots Destroyed (5) 25
Value Destroyed (90) 90
Prototype IDs (0) 0
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (0) 0
TOTAL SCORE: 115
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 0/250
Matter 299/300
Energy 50/50
System Corruption 0%
Temperature Cool (0)
Location -10/Mines
Parts
-------
Power (1)
Propulsion (2)
Utility (2)
Weapon (2)
Inventory
-----------
Ion Engine
Medium Matter Storage Unit
Peak State
------------
Power
Ion Engine
Propulsion
Aluminum Leg
Aluminum Leg
Utility
Weapon
Assault Rifle
EM Pulse Gun
[Rating: 5]
Favorites
-----------
Power Ion Engine
Engine Ion Engine
Propulsion Aluminum Leg
Leg Aluminum Leg
Utility None
Weapon Assault Rifle
Energy Gun EM Pulse Gun
Ballistic Gun Assault Rifle
Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed 2
Swarmer 4
Mutant 1
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 4
Combat Bots Only 4
Matter Collected 380
Salvage Created 76
Parts Attached 7
Power 1
Propulsion 2
Utility 0
Weapon 4
Parts Lost 7
Power 1
Propulsion 2
Utility 0
Weapon 4
Average Slot Usage (%) 63
Naked Turns 2
Spaces Moved 119
Fastest Speed (%) 200
Slowest Speed (%) 100
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 0
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 9
Greatest Overweight (x) 2
Average Overweight (x) 0
Largest Inventory 4
Most Items Carried 4
Average Items Carried 3
Core Damage Taken 268
Volleys Fired 17
Largest 2
Hottest 60
Shots Fired 32
Gun 32
Cannon 0
Launcher 0
Special 0
Kinetic 20
Thermal 0
Explosive 0
Electromagnetic 12
Shots Hit Robots 14
Core Hits 10
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 0
Impact 0
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 161
Projectiles 161
Explosions 0
Melee 0
Ramming 0
Highest Temperature 7
Average Temperature 3
Shutdowns 0
Energy Bleed 0
Interference 0
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 0
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 0
Message Errors 0
Parts Rejected 0
Data loss (map) 0
Data loss (database) 0
Misfires 0
Misdirections 0
Targeting Errors 0
Weapon Failures 0
Haulers Intercepted 0
Robots Corrupted 0
Robots Melted 0
Tactical Retreats 0
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 0
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machine Familiarity 0
Terminals 0
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Machines Hacked 0
Terminals 0
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Total Hacks 0
Successful 0
Failed 0
Catastrophic 0
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 0
Terminals 0
Fabricators 0
Repair Stations 0
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Terminal Hacks 0
Record 0
Part Schematic 0
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 0
Open Door 0
Level Access Points 0
Branch Access Points 0
Emergency Access Points 0
Machine Index 0
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Alert Level 0
Unreport Threat 0
Locate Traps 0
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 0
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 0
Hacking Detections 0
Full Trace Events 0
Feedback Events 0
Feedback Corruption 0
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Built 0
Total Part Build Rating 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 0
Part Repair Time 0
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Scanalyzed 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 2
Largest Group 0
Highest-Rated Group 0
Highest-Rated Ally 0
Total Orders 0
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 0
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 140
Average Influence 57
Maximum Alert Level 0
Low Security (%) 100
Level 1 0
Level 2 0
Level 3 0
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 0
Investigation 0
Extermination 0
Reinforcement 0
Assault 0
Exploration Rate (%) 9
Regions Visited 3
Turns Passed 184
Depth 11 45
Depth 10 139
Scrapyard 45
Materials 40
Mines 99
Prototype IDs
---------------
None
Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None
Game
------
Seed: 1441816441
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 22 min
Sessions: 2
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 13
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 0
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 76x50
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Ouch, that's pretty bad.
Clearly though you got stealth down. You should write up a guide :)
Looks like if you get over the -9 hump, you have a decent shot at making progress in Factory.I'm thinking it's mostly beginners who can flee their way through to -9, probably in pretty bad shape, where they end up dying for lack of strategy. Once players can reach the Factory a floor or two is usually manageable, but attrition seems to get the better of most players in those huge floors.
So, uh, I just encountered Revision 17 on a normal run - it's my third or so run of the competition, the seed is random, and I'm not in the tutorial starting area. I've just never seen this before - intended or bug?
What is the schedule for leaderboard updates so I don't obsessively check :DSorry... I decided not to announce a schedule since on some days I know I won't be able to keep it (it'll be nice when this is fully automated...).
This challenge is so funny, I love it. I have really no idea what I'm doing, yet somehow I ended up on 11 (for now ;)) spots on the leaderboard. Probably for things like "Most times bumping into a wall", "Getting hit most times by a single robot" or "Repeatedly headbutting combat bots".Haha, they're not that bad ;). I did just now reveal a few more achievement titles, and added the first couple descriptions as well.
Combat win remains elusive...The late game will change significantly with the addition of new branches, including ways to make it easier (the first should come in Alpha 4), so it's too early to make other major adjustments there. For 3c I already made Research and Access about 20% easier than when Adraius won his combat run.
I understand that combat is meant to be the harder route, but as it stands, it is both harder and more random due to item attrition and the inability to reposition/escape well with overburdened treads.
Edit: And don't even get me started on recyclers. I think dropped items should have X turns immunity to the greedy bastards, maybe 50 for starters.There are additional ways to deal with them that haven't been added yet, but they won't be outright nerfed like that. I almost never have problems with them as is--scaring them away works fine. Only in the occasional protracted intense battle do they get the upper hand.
For 3c I already made Research and Access about 20% easier than when Adraius won his combat run.
True, though he's only played a couple games since the Challenge started... The mid- and late-game branches will be for those who would like to stack the odds more in their favor. Hopefully you'll be able to make decisions that adjust the difficult to a somewhat controllable degree, but still leave open the "I'm going to blast my way straight to the end" approach that some players may enjoy.For 3c I already made Research and Access about 20% easier than when Adraius won his combat run.However, Adraius has had difficulty replicating that run, which illustrates the randomness of combat runs in general.
Also, my experience with traps so far is that they are certainly a net negative for the player. I haven't yet tried to rewire themNot rewiring them at all would make them a net negative, yes :)
For combat runs, all the programmer spawns make system corruption surge high, reducing hacking ability (making alert purge extremely difficult).Trap rewiring can be done via datajack, though, which is quite easy and unaffected by system corruption. There are some really mean things you can do with traps.
Trap rewiring can be done via datajack, though, which is quite easy and unaffected by system corruption. There are some really mean things you can do with traps.Well that's cool. I will need to play around with it more in a test run.
It looks like you were attracting quite a lot of attention in your combat run, compared to other players at that stage.Oh yes. Oh yes. But I didn't seek out enemies intentionally. If anything, I try to avoid them, even with a combat build. But that's the combat build randomness that's I'm talking about. I just got heaps of enemies, and it just spiraled out of control despite my best efforts. I even purged threat once or twice.
Also, I don't believe anyone's discovered the new way to reset your security level to 0 when it gets out of hand. It's somewhat costly, but under the right circumstances it can be useful... (There will be a tip on that later.)
WHAT!? 8)Hehe, no. It's not impossible to deduce, but you'd have to get lucky or keep an unreasonably close eye on your security level. The hint will be available from NPCs you'll meet later (okay, they'll outright tell you). Like I said though, it's costly. It also may only be of limited use for anyone who can already punch their way through the Factory without too much difficulty, since it only works in the Factory.
Are there in-game clues at this point to deduce how to do this?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Excellent! It was my hope that experienced players will start to learn how each type of map is generally laid out, which while not always being a 100% certainty, this meta knowledge can free up some in-game resources for other uses.
Re: Maps, Access wasn't actually that bad.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm more determined than ever after my Access death. I'm going to modify my gameplan slightly by adding fabrication into the mix. Doing more terminal hacking (especiallyreally improved my game. I suspect not using basic fabrication is an unnecessary handicap, so it's time to fix that.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My goal is try to manufacture 2 Hcp. Storage Units before leaving Materials and 2 Drone bays before leaving Factory. The hcp units will take a lot of RNG out of the equation, and 2 drone bays are enough to make Research a thousand times easier (deploy one drone and then turn the bay off. If the first one finds the exit, deploying the second is a waste. Follow your drone around with the Alt-movement map command. If two are needed to find the exit, you want to delay the second launch anyway lest they travel together which is 99% of the time a waste).
K, I know drone bays are rating 3. Should be easy enough to get that schematic through indirect hacks. How much matter would it take to make one? Can I just have the matter in a container in my inventory, or do I need to attach it to a utility slot before fabrication? I've never done fabrication before.
Finally, I'm going to addto my list of routine indirect hacks. If there are drone bays just lying around, that's a heck of a lot easier than manufacturing them.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
E: I answered my question above. A drone bay just takes 40 matter to fab. That's nothing! However, I was wrong about their rating. Rating 5. I wonder how feasible it will be to reliably fab them absent dedicated hackware. If fabbing them proves too hard, using a certain terminal hack to find drone caches in factory and just fabbing hcp storage units may be the way to go.You've probably noticed there's often a cache found in Storage, too, if you want to go there. (Not 100% guaranteed, though.)
Those min/max slot stats are very cool. I'm not sure they tell us that much, but I don't care, they're very cool!I think there is some interesting information in there. I'll analyze the complete graph at the end (but everything will come with caveats).
Also, what exactly is the kill streak stat?Chaining together kills of combat robots within a certain amount of time from the previous kill.
I think part rejection should stop actions for a time and be made slightly more obvious (like the collision warning).I already added this in Alpha 3. It's on a 500ms timer (the same as the collision/trap warning), and won't let you move during that period. Increasing the timer length (1s?) would be a possibility because it's not as common, and unlike collisions/traps, you won't see a visible change on the map (only the log message and part drop sound) so you may be less likely to stop.
Start of -3. I've salvaged the situation to a degree. Looking dandy now. Also, the entrance is enclosed inside a secret passage. How bizarre.Haha, that's hilarious. I didn't know that one was possible, but it makes sense based on the code; I should fix that.
Do the stairs on Access actually exist? I've had two games where I wandered around for a good half an hour before running out of juice. This is driving me mad.The answer to that has been spoilered a few times on the forum before. (zxc's stealth guide tells you how to escape if you'd like to see.) Right now there aren't enough clues on how to escape--only one indirect clue if you've spent some time in Storage before. There will be more info to help with that added later; before then you could consider just reading a spoiler.
Wait, so playing the game well makes the game shoot you harder?Not exactly. (I wasn't even going to mention all of this because it was meant as a secret adaptive nerf for the enemy, but it's affecting zxc and he's being really vocal about it so I wanted to point out the reason--it's unique to his situation.)
I'd thought it focused on killing you proportionate to how much you were slaughtering things/causing havock; not by how well you were actually doing.
* MOD: Security level is reduced as you lose allies, and when Complex 0b10 AI believes you are being adequately dealt with and pose less of a threat
I already added this in Alpha 3. It's on a 500ms timer (the same as the collision/trap warning), and won't let you move during that period. Increasing the timer length (1s?) would be a possibility because it's not as common, and unlike collisions/traps, you won't see a visible change on the map (only the log message and part drop sound) so you may be less likely to stop.Please make the sound louder as well.
Do you always carry extra treads? I didn't see any in your inventory in those shots, though they may have been beyond the end of the visible list. I would never want to be without them since they provide you with a lot of armor.That run was the first time I started carrying extra treads. But the thing is, my 2x heavy treads got rejected and I moved off the square they were on. So then I got stuck fighting a group at that spot and by the time I was done, those treads were gone (recyclers probably). So I had to wear my backup treads. And I never found enough treads ever again.
Also, yesterday I noticed something about your play style from the achievement values I've been watching, and discovered why you're getting beset upon by increasingly deadly swarms of robots: the central AI is considering you far too efficient and therefore a much bigger threat than all the other Cogminds (by far). No one comes close to your efficiency in replacing damaged parts, and the enemy doesn't feel that it can do enough to stop you.
So basically the AI is working as intended, and has identified you as a ruthlessly efficient opponent that needs to be dealt with via strong response. That efficiency works in your favor in non-combat runs, but it's working against you in combat runs, because you're always in the enemy's face with a pristine build that's endlessly cycling parts. By comparison it thinks it's doing okay against Happylisk and Agroesch and thus they're reaching Access against less resistance.
(I wasn't even going to mention all of this because it was meant as a secret adaptive nerf for the enemy, but it's affecting zxc and he's being really vocal about it so I wanted to point out the reason--it's unique to his situation.)I noticed this in the changelog, but I wasn't sure what exactly it meant. I have to say this is one of the most bizarre game mechanics I've ever seen. So I need to play... less efficiently (whatever this means) in order to win? Play poorly until about -3 and then toggle on? It makes a kind of sense that the AI treats players differently based on how they are doing, but if it's so punishing against good(?) play that you'd fare better with bad(?) play then it no longer makes sense to me.
What I did way back in Alpha 2 was make the AI go easier on threats if they believe that threat is being dealt with, which I feel it perfectly logical. It makes this judgment based on whether or not they are blasting a target to pieces.
The public changelog worded this vaguely:Quote* MOD: Security level is reduced as you lose allies, and when Complex 0b10 AI believes you are being adequately dealt with and pose less of a threat
It's still possible to beat the curve, it's just difficult and the challenge is greater the better you are, due to your enemy's natural response to a threat. (And as mentioned before there will later be additional tools and methods by which to overcome that difficulty regardless of your play style, so I have to balance for things that don't exist yet.)
In short, I made a change in Alpha 2 that makes the game easier for players who aren't performing as well, not the other way around (earlier it was an even playing field, but I like the new system which continues to reflect the idea of a "living dungeon").
Right now it's just the standard drop sound, so making it louder doesn't make as much sense as just adding a new alarm sound for that event. That's another important difference between it and the other events--they have their own alarm which makes it doubly obvious that something is up.I already added this in Alpha 3. It's on a 500ms timer (the same as the collision/trap warning), and won't let you move during that period. Increasing the timer length (1s?) would be a possibility because it's not as common, and unlike collisions/traps, you won't see a visible change on the map (only the log message and part drop sound) so you may be less likely to stop.Please make the sound louder as well.
So I had to wear my backup treads. And I never found enough treads ever again.When I'm low I go after robots that are known to use treads.
Does it mean I replace parts before they are destroyed?Yes.
... what? I did not know there was a mechanism like this.
I noticed this in the changelog, but I wasn't sure what exactly it meant. I have to say this is one of the most bizarre game mechanics I've ever seen. So I need to play... less efficiently (whatever this means) in order to win? Play poorly until about -3 and then toggle on? It makes a kind of sense that the AI treats players differently based on how they are doing, but if it's so punishing against good(?) play that you'd fare better with bad(?) play then it no longer makes sense to me.You weren't supposed to know about the mechanism, at least not yet. It was added as a nerf for the hostile AI, so you're essentially playing the game at its intended base difficulty. (Later on the plan was to reveal this mechanic via an NPC suggesting you learn this and other methods to "trick" the Complex 0b10 AI.)
It's not punishing good play; it's going easier on those who are getting shot to pieces. We could go back to the way it was pre-Alpha 2, where everyone is treated to the high security levels you're encountering, but that makes less sense in the game world.
When I'm low I go after robots that are known to use treads.There was a behemoth nearby that I was preparing to take out when the hunters ambushed me in that screenshot. Then after an extended fight I decided it would be better to exit the area and try to leave the level sooner, to not get bogged down fighting in one location like many times before.
Have you used utility/weapon shieldings? The thing about armor is you can't stack too much at once. You'll get hot. You can't stack too many force fields either. You'll run out of energy. ding to increase the lifespan of everything. And big f'ing launchers to nuke enemy clusters before they can get off more than 2 volleys.
True, psychological warfare. But you have less a chance of scoring well for it.It's not punishing good play; it's going easier on those who are getting shot to pieces. We could go back to the way it was pre-Alpha 2, where everyone is treated to the high security levels you're encountering, but that makes less sense in the game world.Yes, but the optimal play may then be to let yourself get shot to pieces to minimise threat and then later on play better.
I am a bit sceptical that the part replacement efficiency is even a stat that reflects good play. Rather it would reflect either access to many substitute items or a higher degree of adaptation to the items gifted by RNG. Is it simply the ratio of parts attached to parts destroyed? Does that efficiency stat get pumped up when you make a lot of swaps with items in your inventory?No.
Couldn't you possibly game this stat by equipping a lot of fragile items that get destroyed easily, even if they are functionally useless to you?You can only game it if you know about it, which is why you weren't supposed to know about it :). It was an experiment in making the game easier for players who were getting overrun by assault carriers. It worked for everyone except you :P
It was an experiment in making the game easier for players who were getting overrun by assault carriers. It worked for everyone except you :P
So basically the AI is working as intended, and has identified you as a ruthlessly efficient opponent that needs to be dealt with via strong response. That efficiency works in your favor in non-combat runs, but it's working against you in combat runs, because you're always in the enemy's face with a pristine build that's endlessly cycling parts. By comparison it thinks it's doing okay against Happylisk and Agroesch and thus they're reaching Access against less resistance.
I left my current run at -5. It's got tons of armor, a forcefield, and a nice battery. Embarrassingly, I've never had all 3 at once. Man, what a difference all three makes. I didn't lose a single part on -6.This is what I meant in the theory-crafting thread. All you need now is some resistance items to further reduce the damage taken from kinetic/EM etc.
Sadly, as I learn the game better degenerate play has emerged a bit. I'm sure it'll be different once I had more power sources, but right now I can't run my forcefield forever. What I do is carefully watch my power level during battles and turn off the field once it gets too low. However, I'm also turning off my treads at the start of every single battle to maximize how long my field is running for. Every single bit of damage absorbed by the field is damage lost to the aether as zxc said. It's tedious but effective.
Ack great point zxc. I swear, playing this game is like juggling 30 variables. Recoil messes with accuracy, right?
Also, I had another epiphany re: armor. There lots of stuff that gives resistance to thermal and emp and all that, but there's also armor that gives resistance to explosives. I never really got the point of that, since I've yet to encounter in the main branches an enemy that uses launchers against you. The answer is slap on the forehead obvious: it's to make the occasional point blank launcher shot a legitimate option.
The answer to that has been spoilered a few times on the forum before. (zxc's stealth guide tells you how to escape if you'd like to see.) Right now there aren't enough clues on how to escape--only one indirect clue if you've spent some time in Storage before. There will be more info to help with that added later; before then you could consider just reading a spoiler.
Also consider revealing the exit location via hacking or terrain scanners.
My games are very messy.Combat runs are super messy. My stealth runs by comparison are pristine clean, because by avoiding enemies you don't get so many parts destroyed, and it's more of a continually improving setup unless you screw up (which I do at times).
What are drones good for? I saw a couple drone bays in my current game, but I wasn't sure what benefits they offered, so I left them so I could keep what I was already carrying.
What are drones good for? I saw a couple drone bays in my current game, but I wasn't sure what benefits they offered, so I left them so I could keep what I was already carrying.
Scouting. After you equip them, they spawn 2 drones (1 per turn that they're on). Then you can send them off to look for exits until they die. You can get a lot of map data from those little guys.
I'm actually wondering if you can reload them after they're spent.
zxc: good luck duder. I hope this is the one!Thanks! I like cannons too, and I have several in my inventory. I think it's more that enemies don't use them so when I'm cycling through a lot of parts because lack of defenses I start relying on what they use.
e: looking at your screenshot makes me wonder if I'm overvaluing cannons in my weapon loadouts.
Hacking Drone Bay Schematics (even with 3 hacking utilities) proved elusive.Was it? I still want to revisit that system and make sure schematics and fabrication are feasible when desired, but it's still too early to do that beyond the changes already made.
However, I'm also turning off my treads at the start of every single battle to maximize how long my field is running for. Every single bit of damage absorbed by the field is damage lost to the aether as zxc said. It's tedious but effective.Why are you turning off your treads? They don't have an energy upkeep--is there some other reasoning I'm not aware of?
I never really got the point of that, since I've yet to encounter in the main branches an enemy that uses launchers against you. The answer is slap on the forehead obvious: it's to make the occasional point blank launcher shot a legitimate option.Launchers are pretty deadly, though just like you use them mostly for crowd control, so do they ;)
The question is whether I can avoid system corruption enough the next few floors to continue hacking effectively.Preview for Next Version: System corruption's effect on hacking significantly reduced. Also, while in my own experience storage units are rarely critted since the chances are quite low, I'm thinking it probably makes sense to make them immune to critical hits, just because of how annoying that is. Thoughts?
I can't believe how often my storage units get critted.
Does threat get lowered when you enter a new floor at all?Yep.
Yeah, my inventory really is 41 items.You know, I was thinking yesterday there has to be a point at which by taking up so many utility slots with storage you're really driving down your effectiveness overall.(Also, of course the chances of your storage getting critted goes way up when you carry a bunch of them. I generally only carry one; maybe two if I've got no other special utility needs at the moment, and I rarely have problems with crits.)
Perhaps the answer is just don't get surrounded. Easier said than done.Getting surrounded is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to you, in my opinion. I try to route myself to make it impossible to be surrounded, at least based on my knowledge of the map. Depending on your loadout, engaging in a bit of terraforming is another useful option ;)
Cogmind - Alpha 3c
Name: Goncyn
---[ CORE DESTROYED ]---
Performance
-------------
Evolutions (6) 3000
Robots Destroyed (119) 595
Value Destroyed (4905) 4905
Prototype IDs (6) 120
Alien Tech Identified (0) 0
Bonus (0) 0
TOTAL SCORE: 8620
Cogmind
---------
Core Integrity 0/1150
Matter 290/300
Energy 109/120
System Corruption 8%
Temperature Cool (0)
Location -4/Factory
Parts
-------
Power (3)
Micro Fission Core
Propulsion (2)
Anti-Grav System
Utility (9)
Weapon (5)
High-powered Shock Rifle
Inventory
-----------
Empty
Peak State
------------
Power
Micro Fission Core
Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion
Medium Treads
Compact Heavy Treads
Utility
Improved Heat Sink
Advanced Heat Sink
Recoil Nullifier
Improved Core Analyzer
Improved Light Armor Plating
Improved Integration Mediator
Experimental Reclamation Unit
Advanced Force Field
Weapon
Force Lance
KE Penetrator
KE Penetrator
Improved Arc Projector
Railgun
[Rating: 104]
Favorites
-----------
Power Light Angular Momentum Engine
Engine Light Angular Momentum Engine
Power Core Light Nuclear Core
Reactor Light Anti-Matter Reactor
Propulsion Medium Treads
Treads Medium Treads
Wheel Compact Wheel
Leg Aluminum Leg
Hover Unit Anti-Grav System
Flight Unit Flight Unit
Utility Improved Heat Sink
Device Improved Heat Sink
Storage Medium Storage Unit
Processor Improved Targeting Computer
Protection Improved Light Armor Plating
Weapon Flak Gun
Energy Gun Shock Rifle
Energy Cannon Proton Cannon
Ballistic Gun Flak Gun
Ballistic Cannon Assault Cannon
Launcher Grenade Launcher
Special Weapon Mining Laser
Impact Weapon Mace
Stats
-------
Classes Destroyed 15
Worker 7
Builder 2
Tunneler 1
Hauler 1
Recycler 11
Mechanic 1
Operator 1
Watcher 6
Swarmer 16
Grunt 25
Brawler 3
Duelist 1
Sentry 22
Hunter 8
Programmer 14
NPCs Destroyed 0
Best Kill Streak 6
Combat Bots Only 6
Matter Collected 4111
Salvage Created 6467
Parts Attached 210
Power 27
Propulsion 37
Utility 63
Weapon 83
Parts Lost 110
Power 12
Propulsion 14
Utility 31
Weapon 53
Average Slot Usage (%) 90
Naked Turns 2
Spaces Moved 3991
Fastest Speed (%) 333
Slowest Speed (%) 20
Overloaded Moves 0
Propulsion Burnouts 0
Targets Rammed 0
Cave-ins Triggered 0
Teleports 0
Heaviest Build 77
Greatest Overweight (x) 15
Average Overweight (x) 0
Largest Inventory 8
Most Items Carried 4
Average Items Carried 3
Core Damage Taken 2013
Volleys Fired 365
Largest 5
Hottest 359
Shots Fired 1210
Gun 1134
Cannon 72
Launcher 3
Special 1
Kinetic 592
Thermal 449
Explosive 0
Electromagnetic 169
Shots Hit Robots 780
Core Hits 349
Overload Shots 0
Energy Bleed 0
Heat Surge 0
Short Circuit 0
Meltdown 0
Melee Attacks 21
Impact 21
Slashing 0
Piercing 0
Damage Inflicted 13849
Projectiles 13055
Explosions 530
Melee 264
Ramming 0
Highest Temperature 343
Average Temperature 77
Shutdowns 1
Energy Bleed 2
Interference 3
Matter Decay 0
Short Circuit 0
Damage (minor) 0
Damage (major) 0
Damage (core) 0
Highest Corruption 8
Message Errors 20
Parts Rejected 1
Data loss (map) 19
Data loss (database) 8
Misfires 3
Misdirections 6
Targeting Errors 25
Weapon Failures 2
Haulers Intercepted 1
Robots Corrupted 0
Robots Melted 7
Tactical Retreats 11
Communications Jammed 0
Parts Field Recycled 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Merge Repaired 0
Drone Launches 0
Drone Recoveries 0
Derelicts Assembled 0
Traps Triggered 0
Indirectly 0
Trap Hack Attempts 0
Triggered 0
Disarmed 0
Reprogrammed 0
Reused 0
Machine Familiarity 15
Terminals 12
Fabricators 1
Repair Stations 2
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Machines Hacked 15
Terminals 12
Fabricators 1
Repair Stations 2
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Total Hacks 31
Successful 14
Failed 16
Catastrophic 1
Database Lockouts 0
Manual 5
Terminals 26
Fabricators 2
Repair Stations 3
Recycling Units 0
Scanalyzers 0
Terminal Hacks 10
Record 5
Part Schematic 1
Robot Schematic 0
Robot Analysis 0
Prototype ID Bank 0
Open Door 1
Level Access Points 0
Branch Access Points 0
Emergency Access Points 0
Machine Index 0
Terminal Index 0
Fabricator Index 0
Repair Station Index 0
Recycling Unit Index 0
Scanalyzer Index 0
Alert Level 0
Unreport Threat 1
Locate Traps 1
Disarm Traps 0
Reprogram Traps 0
Dispatch Records 0
Maintenance Status 0
Security Status 0
Surveillance Status 0
Patrol Status 0
Transport Status 0
Investigation Status 0
Extermination Status 0
Reinforcement Status 0
Assault Status 0
Recall Investigation 0
Recall Extermination 0
Recall Reinforcements 0
Recall Assault 0
Hauler Manifests 0
Registered Components 0
Registered Prototypes 0
Zone Layout 0
Sector Layout 0
Machine Controls 1
Hacking Detections 10
Full Trace Events 4
Feedback Events 1
Feedback Corruption 1
Feedback Part Disabled 0
Feedback Blocked 0
Robot Schematics Acquired 0
Robots Built 0
Total Robot Build Rating 0
Robot Fabrication Matter 0
Robot Fabrication Time 0
Part Schematics Acquired 1
Parts Built 0
Total Part Build Rating 0
Part Fabrication Matter 0
Part Fabrication Time 0
Parts Repaired 1
Part Repair Time 30
Parts Recycled 0
Recycled Matter 0
Retrieved Matter 0
Parts Scanalyzed 0
Part Schematics Acquired 0
Parts Damaged 0
Robot Analysis Total 0
Robots Rewired 0
Robots Hacked 0
Non-combat 0
Combat 0
Parse 0
Link 0
Rebooted 0
Overloaded 0
Assimilated 0
Manual 0
Secondary 0
Robot Hack Failures 0
Allies Hacked 0
Hacks Repelled 0
Total Allies 9
Largest Group 0
Highest-Rated Group 0
Highest-Rated Ally 0
Total Orders 0
STAY 0
GOTO 0
ROAM 0
FOLLOW 0
GUARD 0
AID 0
BUILD 0
TUNNEL 0
DROP 0
PICKUP 0
COLLECT 0
EXPLORE 0
RETURN 0
Terraforming Orders 0
Walls Built 0
Walls Tunneled 0
Ally Attacks 0
Total Damage 0
Kills 0
Allies Corrupted 0
Allies Melted 0
Peak Influence 441
Average Influence 138
Maximum Alert Level 2
Low Security (%) 63
Level 1 35
Level 2 1
Level 3 0
Level 4 0
Level 5 0
Squads Dispatched 21
Investigation 4
Extermination 11
Reinforcement 4
Assault 2
Exploration Rate (%) 22
Regions Visited 10
Turns Passed 8133
Depth 11 69
Depth 10 104
Depth 9 637
Depth 8 520
Depth 7 2391
Depth 6 3043
Depth 5 512
Depth 4 857
Scrapyard 69
Materials 1000
Factory 5351
Mines 261
Storage 1452
Prototype IDs
---------------
Advanced Beam Rifle
Improved Spread Laser
Advanced Plasma Rifle
Precision Assault Rifle
Anti-matter Cannon
Experimental Reclamation Unit
Alien Tech Recovered
----------------------
None
Game
------
Seed: 1442162506
^Manual?: 0
Play Time: 223 min
Sessions: 14
Mod: N/A
Game No.: 2
ASCII: 1
Keyboard: 1
Font: 18/Terminus
Map View: 66x50
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Getting surrounded is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to you, in my opinion. I try to route myself to make it impossible to be surrounded, at least based on my knowledge of the map. Depending on your loadout, engaging in a bit of terraforming is another useful option ;)
Also, while in my own experience storage units are rarely critted since the chances are quite low, I'm thinking it probably makes sense to make them immune to critical hits, just because of how annoying that is. Thoughts?I'd personally love it. It would be a player buff, but I'd rather you create difficulty via other methods than the extremely annoying and random crit-losing storage units with key items spilling out everywhere. Also, managing a 41 item inventory is not easy. I'm also still waiting for the item swap mode :)
You know, I was thinking yesterday there has to be a point at which by taking up so many utility slots with storage you're really driving down your effectiveness overall.I entirely agree, however I also think that even with much lower effectiveness you should still be much better off than without those 40 odd backup items. I keep running out of items to use in my utility slots. I just fill them up with whatever I find, like target analysers and heat sinks, because anything is better than nothing. So, in that situation, having 40 backup items is far superior because I wouldn't even be able to make use of all the other utility slots. If we look back at all those screenshots I took of the turning points in my combat runs (check the theory-crafting OP) it is clear that the primary reason I die is due to running out of items, especially weapons. I also outline some thoughts in that post about storage.
When programmers are en route, I've started waiting in a good spot rather than continuing to explore, just to take care of them safely and not get surrounded. One of the things I've started to learn recently.Perhaps the answer is just don't get surrounded. Easier said than done.Getting surrounded is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to you, in my opinion. I try to route myself to make it impossible to be surrounded, at least based on my knowledge of the map. Depending on your loadout, engaging in a bit of terraforming is another useful option ;)
When programmers are en route, I've started waiting in a good spot rather than continuing to explore, just to take care of them safely and not get surrounded. One of the things I've started to learn recently.Absolutely. I don't always wait, since it can sometimes take them a while to reach your position, but with a combat build I would say it's best to change your movement tactics to make sure you can take cover and get in a defensive position as quickly as possible. (Even better to have sensors, honestly, even just a single-slot array, because when you see about two question marks coming straight towards your position non-stop you know what they are ;))
The Access floor just got rekt.
(https://i.imgur.com/gElRcAK.png)
I found the exit before long and my items and core integrity were so good that I decided to just go on a rampage around the map. Nothing could stop me!
I was still in pristine condition, but I escaped after a while of clearing a huge chunk of the floor because managing matter was annoying and I was getting impatient by that point to win. It was fun just destroying everything without any fear for once, and with a fully set-up build. By that point I was just leaving amazing items on the floor because I had so many, and I could pick them up at any time because I was literally clearing the floor of all robots and machines, so eventually no recyclers were around to take items. Chaos prevails over the forces of order.
(https://i.imgur.com/Klkw3fx.png)
Access was far easier than Research and actually probably Factory too.
Loot for daysSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Also I one-shot a behemoth.
The morgue file:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I killed four behemoths on -1 alone, so that display of two killed is definitely bugged. It should be about six or so. Edit: I took out most of them with corruption from EM weapons, which explains why they don't show up on the log. So everything is working as intended.
Access was far easier than Research and actually probably Factory too.This is a side effect of several factors. Notice that highest-tier robots from the main classes peak out at a rating of about 8~9, meaning the most difficult part of the game will be when you first encounter them in Research. By Access, you have access to consistently better parts, but your enemies haven't continued to grow stronger. Thus over the past months players are either stopped in Research or will probably escape, but not usually get stuck in Access itself--if you can get to Access in good shape your chances of making it out increase.
Spoily question for K:Nope,Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I discovered something that's meta-gaming but it's made my factory runs easier:I was wondering when someone would notice this. It's not obvious right away in Cogmind, though technically it's a common feature of many traditional roguelikes.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Definitely been focusing more on hacking to keep threat levels down but research consistently wrecks me.As explained above that's the most difficult area of the game, so get over that hump and you should be able to pull off a win.
Notice that highest-tier robots from the main classes peak out at a rating of about 8~9, meaning the most difficult part of the game will be when you first encounter them in Research. By Access, you have access to consistently better parts, but your enemies haven't continued to grow stronger.This is a good point, but I'm mostly referring to the number of enemies rather than how strong they were individually.
Another part of the reason you found it easier than you otherwise might have in terms of Programmers and the food clock is that I reduced their frequency significantly for Alpha 3, especially in the end game.Their frequency seems good - the problem is that programmers were being sent (according to the log) but not finding me. This happened at least a dozen times while I was around the edges of the map attempting to hack the exit location.
Not sure about the lack of assault squads if you were causing that much destruction in Assault, but it could be caused by them not having enough time to respond yet, or you were purging threats. (?)The last time I purged threat was on -3 I believe. No assault squads were ever sent on -1. It's like my alert level was permanently stuck at a low one for the duration of -1. -3 on the other hand was so full of enemies that I could barely move without encountering more. So either there is some weird issue with -1, or it's intended to be much calmer than Research.
This is interesting, and I hadn't tried to do this although I look around the map a lot. Shouldn't it be simple to prevent this from being effective if you wished?I discovered something that's meta-gaming but it's made my factory runs easier:I was wondering when someone would notice this. It's not obvious right away in Cogmind, though technically it's a common feature of many traditional roguelikes.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Out of curiosity, were you using EMP launchers against Behemoths, of HERF cannons? I assume it wasn't emp rifles.
I was going to point out that it could be overcome by increasing the number of enemies, but then you'd likely be more easily overwhelmed. Unless perhaps you're carrying 40 inventory items, which we need to do something about :PNotice that highest-tier robots from the main classes peak out at a rating of about 8~9, meaning the most difficult part of the game will be when you first encounter them in Research. By Access, you have access to consistently better parts, but your enemies haven't continued to grow stronger.This is a good point, but I'm mostly referring to the number of enemies rather than how strong they were individually.
Okay, that might be a problem. I'll look into it because it could be a factor of the access points being blocked off (though they're not supposed to enter from those).Another part of the reason you found it easier than you otherwise might have in terms of Programmers and the food clock is that I reduced their frequency significantly for Alpha 3, especially in the end game.Their frequency seems good - the problem is that programmers were being sent (according to the log) but not finding me. This happened at least a dozen times while I was around the edges of the map attempting to hack the exit location.
This is interesting, and I hadn't tried to do this although I look around the map a lot. Shouldn't it be simple to prevent this from being effective if you wished?Not too simple, no. You'd have to fake some map UI interactions while the cursor is outside the map, and do it in multiple modes. Even more difficult to address: If you allow the player to scroll indefinitely even beyond the edges of the map they could get lost (unless familiar with the "press Enter to recenter" command). Not very friendly...
I just think it should be in line with Research. And no doubt maxing out your inventory capacity is the optimal strategy, but I think carrying a ton of items like that is the best way of reducing the variance of the run and of controlling your item situation. I don't know how you're meant to cope if your treads get crit-destroyed and you have no more backups, and hunters are shooting at you through the wall and you can't move to take a shot at them because of a 2k delay (this happened to me at one point that run)...I was going to point out that it could be overcome by increasing the number of enemies, but then you'd likely be more easily overwhelmed. Unless perhaps you're carrying 40 inventory items, which we need to do something about :PNotice that highest-tier robots from the main classes peak out at a rating of about 8~9, meaning the most difficult part of the game will be when you first encounter them in Research. By Access, you have access to consistently better parts, but your enemies haven't continued to grow stronger.This is a good point, but I'm mostly referring to the number of enemies rather than how strong they were individually.
I did think something was wrong to this effect. Still though, once I took out that first behemoth I was all set; the game was mine to lose. No assault squadrons were even sent in the log. Programmers did eventually find me when I moved away from the map edges to look for the exit though. Maybe they were regular programmers patrolling around rather than the ones actually sent for me? I actually wanted squads to come for me because I was prepared to annihilate them standing by the exit.Okay, that might be a problem. I'll look into it because it could be a factor of the access points being blocked off (though they're not supposed to enter from those).Another part of the reason you found it easier than you otherwise might have in terms of Programmers and the food clock is that I reduced their frequency significantly for Alpha 3, especially in the end game.Their frequency seems good - the problem is that programmers were being sent (according to the log) but not finding me. This happened at least a dozen times while I was around the edges of the map attempting to hack the exit location.Oops, you had it a little easier than you should have :)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[/quote]This is interesting, and I hadn't tried to do this although I look around the map a lot. Shouldn't it be simple to prevent this from being effective if you wished?Not too simple, no. You'd have to fake some map UI interactions while the cursor is outside the map, and do it in multiple modes. Even more difficult to address: If you allow the player to scroll indefinitely even beyond the edges of the map they could get lost (unless familiar with the "press Enter to recenter" command). Not very friendly...
I just think it should be in line with Research.Aside from the slight level gap that starts to grow by then, it would be if you had the normal squads on your tail. Although the map is more open so the dynamics of encounters would be a little different from Research.
And no doubt maxing out your inventory capacity is the optimal strategy, but I think carrying a ton of items like that is the best way of reducing the variance of the run and of controlling your item situation.Carrying useful spares is definitely important, though not quite that many. I think (ideally) one or two storage units should be enough for a combat run.
Maybe they were regular programmers patrolling around rather than the ones actually sent for me? I actually wanted squads to come for me because I was prepared to annihilate them standing by the exit.Yeah those would have been regular patrols.
You could have it detect when the player has scrolled away sufficiently and just display a small message saying 'Press Enter to reset your view' or something to that effect. In any case I won't be using this method because finding exits in Factory is easy enough. Finding exits in Research, on the other hand...It's possible, though in all it would be a lot of work to prevent a practice that may not always be so beneficial, and could even send you in the wrong/worse direction depending on the internal layout.
First of all congratulation, zxc, that is an incredible run.Thanks!
Considering you spent ~40% of the run in Access, I bow to your powers of concentration. By -3 I think I'm psychically damaged by the attrition more than physically, and wonder if a little more positivity (or negativity) in taking my 58th tactical escape (57 is my limit, man) - I would have at least lasted a bit longer.Quite a bit of those turns spent in Access were in waiting out terminal traces while trying to hack the exit location, which I eventually gave up trying. I was confident in being able to find the exit by just exploring, but since enemies couldn't find me at the terminal I thought it was safer to try and hack the exit that way. The attrition does take a massive toll. I think my earlier posts that I made during the run show my rising levels of stress :P . Especially when you keep making these combat runs that get far but not far enough.
Looking at the top scores, -3 clearly is a big wall for lots of players. Wonder how much is mental ...I fully believe (and Kyzrati does too I think) that Research is the hardest part of the game. The levels are less open compared with Factory, and enemies seem more concentrated. Plus, the enemies reach their final tiers. To add to all that, there are many dead-ends, making navigation difficult and time-consuming (which results in more attrition as more enemies find you while back-tracking, which results in further increases to alert level and so on). Plus because the levels are less open than Factory, it becomes very hard to avoid key enemies like Carriers and assault teams.
I had a thought regarding the 1-tread build (and also perhaps in general regarding tactical escapes) - and getting these unexpectedly shot off. A utility that allows you to 'emergency detach' all items in a standard turn, to make a run for it (you don't want to stand in a firefight carefully removing items one at a time to get your speed up to something reasonable) would certainly make sense lore-wise (viewing the Cogmind as the 'core') - but might not be well balanced. Perhaps could be done so by applying an energy / matter cost (you need to plan the emergency detach procedure at least a little bit).I've thought about this quite a bit as well. It was really hard to throw off my storage units to lower my mass enough to escape. Honestly, it should let you drop storage units and all the excess items in one action, like as though it got blown off. In this screenshot I wanted to transition into flight, but it's almost quicker to let my storage units get blown off.
Reading this discussion about how Access is easier than research is making me a sad panda indeed.A large part of why Access is easier than Research is because it's more predictable ie. after you've been there several times, you know what you're doing. My first time in Research was much like yours, although I didn't try to fight any enemies.
My current run is a spectacular exercise in fail. I found storage so ended up with tons of drone bays, launchers, and storage units. (scanalyzing a drone bay schematic afterwords was easy as pie). I'm sitting on Factory -5 with like 4 different guided launchers. The problem is I'm basically out of everything else. The security level is rising and with my launchers I can squelch assault squads... which makes the level just go higher. I had to put the run down for work, but I imagine I'll get home, fire up cogmind, and die spectacularly in about 5 minutes.That does sound like you're going to be in some trouble soon. It'd be great if you could purge some alert levels. If you have the space, you can gear up quite fast by killing some guys, but armour and key defensive items like force fields aren't going to be easy to find.
A part of me wants to try an ally based build revolving around allied programmers (you wouldn't need too many weapons or coolant systems) but I'm going to save all experimentation for after the tournament.That'd be interesting. Not my cup of tea however. After the challenge, I'm going to go off and try to read all the records currently in the game, and try to get some screenshots for my guide.
I'm assuming we'll go back to weekly seed runs once this is over?Sure thing. I see no reason why we wouldn't continue them.
That does sound like you're going to be in some trouble soon. It'd be great if you could purge some alert levels. If you have the space, you can gear up quite fast by killing some guys, but armour and key defensive items like force fields aren't going to be easy to find.
If you want to nerf storage units, I think you can simply remove HCP. Storage Units. Then Large Storage Units will be the biggest. However, I think for a trade, it would be good to remove player items getting insta-destroyed by crits. Also, saboteurs blasting off storage units are the worst, but I realise they're meant to be nasty.I might agree that the player's parts should be immune to crits. They're quite deadly and can suddenly ruin everything--at the wrong time a string of bad rolls can bury you in short order. (A related issue: Player parts are already immune to disruption, for the same reason.)
A hotkey to enable all weapons (and disable all weapons) would be great. Something like Ctrl-[. Often I want to disable all weapons but my launcher, or vice versa. Other times I just want to enable my energy weapons to not spend matter, or just a single weapon to scare off a Recycler, or a single cannon to make a hole in the wall. I'd make use of a similar hotkey for enabling/disabling all propulsion as well (Ctrl-= ?), for energy min-maxing when resting, but that's only relevant for non-combat runs and even then, not so often.Good ideas.
It is rather annoying that when one of your weapons misfires due to system corruption, they all seem to get disabled. I'm not there is a point to this, because even when you have them disabled, they can still misfire. So it just results in more key-presses to turn everything back on again.Adraius and I discussed this somewhere recently (can't find the post). It's due to how the player UI and fire control system work--a programming issue. I'll code a workaround to make it more friendly.
Behemoths could use a defensive buff I think. Obviously something innate, as they come with great defensive items already. Their huge size makes them very easy to hit, and they seem to get destroyed by system corruption really fast, though I haven't tried full EM weapon volleys on other enemies all that much. A single Hunter is a lot harder to kill I find, for my combat Cogminds.Behemoths are already somewhat resistant to EM, unlike most other front-line units. The real buff would be to give them greater core integrity, or reduce their core coverage.
Is there a way to 'shout' to get the attention of nearby enemies?Only by shooting non-combat robots, or of course being spotted directly or by a Watcher. I wonder if adding such a feature would be too effective a tactical move.
I had a thought regarding the 1-tread build (and also perhaps in general regarding tactical escapes) - and getting these unexpectedly shot off. A utility that allows you to 'emergency detach' all items in a standard turn, to make a run for it (you don't want to stand in a firefight carefully removing items one at a time to get your speed up to something reasonable) would certainly make sense lore-wise (viewing the Cogmind as the 'core') - but might not be well balanced. Perhaps could be done so by applying an energy / matter cost (you need to plan the emergency detach procedure at least a little bit).I remember a similar discussion during the 7DRL, or perhaps it was way back when I was brainstorming the new version... either way, I think it fits just fine into the lore, and would be a valid option. I don't see it being particularly unbalanced since you'd be giving up everything except 4 inventory items. Other opinions? Imagine having had this option available on previous runs--would it have meant anything for you?
Separate request for Kyzrati: sort by rating for inventory? Decent idea or no? I mostly use sort by type currently, but maybe sort by rating would be useful as a shortcut to finding your 'worst' inventory items to more quickly work out what to drop for a shiny new item on the floor.Unless you have a ridiculous inventory size and it's filled with a lot of same-category items, I think type-sorting combined with 'q' mode is plenty good enough there. (Plus adding a new one would mess up the conveniently understandable keyboard scheme).
Reading this discussion about how Access is easier than research is making me a sad panda indeed. My guy on Access probably would have made it if II was thinking about you during this discussion, and when you first reported it imagined that you really should have won that run :(
I'm sitting on Factory -5 with like 4 different guided launchers. The problem is I'm basically out of everything else.That seems to be one of my own trappings--ooh stash of launchers I'll just carry all of them. My last game ended not long after I emptied my inventory to carry four Guided Mini-nuke Launchers :P. It was great blowing everything to hell, but when I wasn't in a good position to use them I got picked apart; and matter was an issue. Should have just brought one and kept myself a little more versatile.
A part of me wants to try an ally based build revolving around allied programmers (you wouldn't need too many weapons or coolant systems) but I'm going to save all experimentation for after the tournament.Yep. I'd appreciate if someone else wants to take over management if jimmijamjams doesn't have time to do it anymore. I can provide the BBCode/content for the current format to save time--it's just a matter of coming up with a seed name and taking a couple screenshots.
I'm assuming we'll go back to weekly seed runs once this is over?
A large part of why Access is easier than Research is because it's more predictable ie. after you've been there several times, you know what you're doing. My first time in Research was much like yours, although I didn't try to fight any enemies.I imagine getting a stealth win before a combat is a better idea, since the former can be achieved more quickly and allow you to scope out the maps rather than doing so slowly and without as many supporting sensors.
K's right - I currently have 36 inventory space, which is far more than I normally roll with, and it's hurting my combat effectiveness. I think I'm going to go back to slightly smaller inventories in future runs (20ish) and only crank up the space around -4 or -3.:-\ My combat effectiveness was sky high with a large inventory, because all you need to fight is power sources, treads, some useful utilities, and lots and lots of guns. When something gets destroyed, it gets replaced by a backup, and I can continue fighting. It seems the problem here is that you didn't have enough backup items (or the right backup items), which can make the large inventory seem rather ineffectual. I believe maximising your inventory (to a point) is optimal in the current Alpha.
Behemoths are already somewhat resistant to EM, unlike most other front-line units. The real buff would be to give them greater core integrity, or reduce their core coverage.It could be that it's OP at late-game. I've used it a lot early and mid-game, but found that kinetic seemed more effective, as well as not generating as much heat / spending as much energy. Will have to experiment more. Those behemoths were just going down after a couple of EM volleys, by system corruption.
I've always thought EM in general might be an OP damage type, especially by the end of the game, though surprisingly you don't use it much.
The situation I was thinking of was for luring sentries off their posts, so that my stealth builds could exit more easily. Right now I have to stand in the open and take a hit in order to get the sentry's attention, and then kite it to move it off the exit. However, shouting could be useful when you are in a tactically advantageous position and wish to fight.Is there a way to 'shout' to get the attention of nearby enemies?Only by shooting non-combat robots, or of course being spotted directly or by a Watcher. I wonder if adding such a feature would be too effective a tactical move.
I would agree there. I did have a ridiculous inventory, reaching a max of 50 at one point. Wouldn't adding that mode be simply a matter of adding the letter 'r' to sort by inventory? Right now 'r' stops running right? But escape serves the same purpose.Separate request for Kyzrati: sort by rating for inventory? Decent idea or no? I mostly use sort by type currently, but maybe sort by rating would be useful as a shortcut to finding your 'worst' inventory items to more quickly work out what to drop for a shiny new item on the floor.Unless you have a ridiculous inventory size and it's filled with a lot of same-category items, I think type-sorting combined with 'q' mode is plenty good enough there. (Plus adding a new one would mess up the conveniently understandable keyboard scheme).
Yep. I'd appreciate if someone else wants to take over management if jimmijamjams doesn't have time to do it anymore. I can provide the BBCode/content for the current format to save time--it's just a matter of coming up with a seed name and taking a couple screenshots.I could perhaps try doing it. Maybe we can all take turns managing it :)
I imagine getting a stealth win before a combat is a better idea, since the former can be achieved more quickly and allow you to scope out the maps rather than doing so slowly and without as many supporting sensors.I agree here. Playing stealth allows you to see map layouts and patrol patterns, learn how to find exits and secret doors, and so on. You might not be able to focus on these things all the time with a combat build either, as you're always up to your neck in enemies to deal with.
It's a better late-game tactic because robots are just as susceptible to EM as they were at the beginning (since it's on its own scale), but the weapons do significantly more damage.Behemoths are already somewhat resistant to EM, unlike most other front-line units. The real buff would be to give them greater core integrity, or reduce their core coverage.It could be that it's OP at late-game. I've used it a lot early and mid-game, but found that kinetic seemed more effective, as well as not generating as much heat / spending as much energy. Will have to experiment more. Those behemoths were just going down after a couple of EM volleys, by system corruption.
I've always thought EM in general might be an OP damage type, especially by the end of the game, though surprisingly you don't use it much.
The situation I was thinking of was for luring sentries off their posts, so that my stealth builds could exit more easily. Right now I have to stand in the open and take a hit in order to get the sentry's attention, and then kite it to move it off the exit. However, shouting could be useful when you are in a tactically advantageous position and wish to fight.I see. There are already 3-4 ways I can think of luring Sentries from their positions without taking direct fire. Not all effective in all situations, but I believe a universal solution would make things a little more boring.
I would agree there. I did have a ridiculous inventory, reaching a max of 50 at one point. Wouldn't adding that mode be simply a matter of adding the letter 'r' to sort by inventory? Right now 'r' stops running right? But escape serves the same purpose.'r' is also used as the actual run key (not just stopping) for players using vi-keys, so it can't be reused.
Be my guest! One less thing I'd have to do :)Yep. I'd appreciate if someone else wants to take over management if jimmijamjams doesn't have time to do it anymore. I can provide the BBCode/content for the current format to save time--it's just a matter of coming up with a seed name and taking a couple screenshots.I could perhaps try doing it. Maybe we can all take turns managing it :)
It's a better late-game tactic because robots are just as susceptible to EM as they were at the beginning (since it's on its own scale), but the weapons do significantly more damage.That's a great point regarding EM late-game. What if enemies required more damage to die from system corruption the more core integrity they have? And regarding programmers, I often swapped weapon loadouts depending on what I was facing (or expecting to face). Programmers are still suicidal i.e. they overheat really fast.
By the end with a full EM loadout you should be able to take out almost anything quickly, as long as you can hit it, so Behemoths are extra easy in that regard. The drawback was supposed to be you're less equipped to confront Programmers, though their number has been reduced from before...
Maybe to offset that change and restore the balance Programmers will need to have their EM resistance further increased.
I see. There are already 3-4 ways I can think of luring Sentries from their positions without taking direct fire. Not all effective in all situations, but I believe a universal solution would make things a little more boring.That's completely fair enough! I know of a few ways, I was just wondering since shouting is a thing in games like DCSS.
'r' is also used as the actual run key (not just stopping) for players using vi-keys, so it can't be reused.Fair enough, but you have any number of letters you can use. Still, I agree it wouldn't be an important addition.
That's a great point regarding EM late-game. What if enemies required more damage to die from system corruption the more core integrity they have?Not sure yet. I'd like the system to be mostly transparent and easy to use (damage = corruption), and the proposed solution works against that.
And regarding programmers, I often swapped weapon loadouts depending on what I was facing (or expecting to face). Programmers are still suicidal i.e. they overheat really fast.I noticed. They were supposed to overheat if you use a good amount of thermal against them, but if they're still melting even before that point then I haven't done enough to counteract it. I'm probably going to do three things to them for the next build: further increase their EM resistance, make them slightly weak against TH weapons (which would be the only such robot), and give them better heat dissipation.
Right now I'm all for avoiding anything that's not an "important addition" :P. Soooo many important things to do. Like new branches... all of which have been getting stacked behind other important things to do...'r' is also used as the actual run key (not just stopping) for players using vi-keys, so it can't be reused.Fair enough, but you have any number of letters you can use. Still, I agree it wouldn't be an important addition.
Re: those stats, they're quite nifty. You can see avg. damage drop off at 0 because of my 3/4 stealth wins where I hardly do any damage. The only reason why it's even that high is because of the massive damage I did in the combat run. I wonder what extermination squads are, and even the investigation squads. I think the assault teams are the grunt teams with a bruiser/duelist and saboteur, which is a tough mix of units to deal with.Yeah, I noticed the cause behind the 0-depth explosive ratio--that bar is... all zxc. I'm curious what it would've looked like without the combat run! It would perhaps also be slightly different if the Programmers and/or potential assault squads could reach you in -1. Once we have some other combat victories (if that happens by the end--I hope), that bar will certainly make a corresponding jump.
I would argue that this would be just as easy to use (damage still = corruption). In fact, I think it is less intuitive that a huge robot like a Behemoth dies as fast to the same amount of EM damage as a tiny, weakling robot. I kind of like that system though, as it gives Behemoths an interesting weak-point. However, they're too weak! Maybe late-game EM weapons need to be nerfed instead?That's a great point regarding EM late-game. What if enemies required more damage to die from system corruption the more core integrity they have?Not sure yet. I'd like the system to be mostly transparent and easy to use (damage = corruption), and the proposed solution works against that.
It would perhaps also be slightly different if the Programmers and/or potential assault squads could reach you in -1.Definitely the damage would have been higher. Also, my score would have been higher :P
Also interesting: Notice the rather significant jump in total damage going into -3 ;)That's very interesting. I would suppose it's due to the increase in concentration of enemies, which further results in rapid increases to alert levels and even more robots. Plus most combat runs end when the alert level gets too high, and a lot of high score runs ended on -3.
The idea was to give them a weak point you can take advantage of, yes. It is possible late-game EM weapons could use a bit of a nerf, but it would be all to easy to get almost no one to use them. As is they can at least do a non-minimal amount of real damage along with their EM effect. Lowering their damage further would mean that if you still use them, the main purpose would be purely for corruption, and you'd have to use a lot of them to achieve that (combining them with other weapons would be pointless compared to how it sorta works now).I would argue that this would be just as easy to use (damage still = corruption). In fact, I think it is less intuitive that a huge robot like a Behemoth dies as fast to the same amount of EM damage as a tiny, weakling robot. I kind of like that system though, as it gives Behemoths an interesting weak-point. However, they're too weak! Maybe late-game EM weapons need to be nerfed instead?That's a great point regarding EM late-game. What if enemies required more damage to die from system corruption the more core integrity they have?Not sure yet. I'd like the system to be mostly transparent and easy to use (damage = corruption), and the proposed solution works against that.
I have a cogmind currently rampaging through Access. I had to stop for the day due to social obligations but I think this is it. Getting through research without sensors, drones, or hacking was painless after I realized what I've been doing wrong literally every run til now. I'll post more after hopefully reaching the surface.Sounds like you can already see the light at the end of the tunnel! Rampaging through Access is usually the state shortly before a victorious run :D
I have a cogmind currently rampaging through Access. I had to stop for the day due to social obligations but I think this is it. Getting through research without sensors, drones, or hacking was painless after I realized what I've been doing wrong literally every run til now. I'll post more after hopefully reaching the surface.
Dying to know what the secret is. Getting through research painlessly is something that eludes everyone else, including myself.
.....Stack EM weapons ....?
LOCATION = SURFACE
GOAL = ACCOMPLISHED
LRC-V3 codenamed "Happylisk" has left the building.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Scattershot approach works! I do much the same thing as you were doing this run ie. swapping weapons a lot based on enemies being faced, ever since I came up with that table. Glad that helped it click for you!
Dying to know what the secret is. Getting through research painlessly is something that eludes everyone else, including myself.
.....Stack EM weapons ....?
Winner winner chicken dinner.
2 other changes. One, whenever I got programmer alerts in Research I would move to single tile corridors when possible and wait. It prevented getting swarmed. Two, I would position myself so I could tell which direction they were coming from. This helped me accurately guess where the stairs were pretty easily.That waiting thing also clicked for me recently. But do you know for sure that programmer dispatches come from an exit? That's an excellent method of finding the exit if that's the case.
K, speaking as someone who's exclusively played roguelikes since 2002, I think this is the best roguelike I've ever played.That's high praise given how much DCSS you've played! I'm not quite ready to give up the top spot just yet, but it's second by a long way for me. :)
e: oh man I really, really, really hope I hold on to the Heavy Metal award.I'd challenge you for it but I don't have a clue what it's for. Maybe something related to heavy armour? Maybe something to do with being highest mass over support capacity? I'm a metalhead myself so I feel I should be up there too. :P
That waiting thing also clicked for me recently. But do you know for sure that programmer dispatches come from an exit? That's an excellent method of finding the exit if that's the case.
In your winning combat run, you corrupted 11 enemy robots to death. I corrupted 56. I suspect this is what kept the alert level low (and if I'm right, corrupting an enemy to death should probably bother the AI more). I could be wrong though, and maybe it was Waste.
Also, minor bug: the scoresheet does not say how long you spent in waste, unlike other branches.
Two, I would position myself so I could tell which direction they were coming from. This helped me accurately guess where the stairs were pretty easily.Ah you figured this strategy out. I was wondering when someone would notice ;)
I think thermal weapons are underpowered. I didn't use thermal at all this round, didn't pick up thermal guns. In the current state of the game, I think a thermal weapon should only be used out of desperation. The change to make programmers heat vulnerable will give them a nice oomph.Yeah, that's part of the intent there--it needs another boost or two. Thermal is obviously at a bit of a disadvantage since it drains power you'd rather be spending on other things regardless of your build; this despite its multiple existing advantages.
K, speaking as someone who's exclusively played roguelikes since 2002, I think this is the best roguelike I've ever played.You're not leaving much room for improvement there :)
That's high praise given how much DCSS you've played! I'm not quite ready to give up the top spot just yet, but it's second by a long way for me. :)I'l take second to DCSS ;). That game is awesome (and created by a zillion talented individuals), as are many of the major roguelikes. Different players just get into different games, too, and I'm sure Cogmind can easily fill some voids since there isn't really anything like it.
I'd challenge you for it but I don't have a clue what it's for. Maybe something related to heavy armour? Maybe something to do with being highest mass over support capacity? I'm a metalhead myself so I feel I should be up there too.zxc with his scattershot approach again :). I believe I recall from looking over the complete achievement values this morning that Happylisk is far in the lead on that one.
Question for K: Would the AI treat a robot being corrupted to death differently than a robot being blown up for security purposes?Hm, because the game doesn't track what sources caused corruption (as it's an indirect form of damage that can come from many different origins and accumulate over time--more difficult to accurately track), I'll admit here that corrupted robots are ignored by the AI. So that was working in your favor (and may be a clue that EM weapons are too good--I may add a tracking system for at least primary corruption sources after all). However, I will say from look at your data that it wasn't the sole contributing factor to your low security level.
I think enemies defeated by system melting and system corruption ought to count in exactly the same way as those defeated by regular destruction, particularly regarding alert level and score.I'll look into expanding the system to include both. Holding a tournament and getting everyone (especially myself) closely examining scoring and score sheets has made quite a few meaningful discoveries.
Also, minor bug: the scoresheet does not say how long you spent in waste, unlike other branches.Very odd. It appears to be working normally for some players. I do see it's missing from your winning record and you say you visited it so it really should be listed. Not sure why that would happen. It was just added to the system for the most recent release, the first new map area since the first alpha, and while it seemed like it was working fine maybe I forgot something? Thanks for letting me know; I'll investigate.
The morgue file:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The morgue file:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I mean, what does that even look like?
I don't know, but I had a go:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, Reiver why aren't you in the Challenge?
Whoa, best Cogmind fan art I've seen so far! Requesting permission to pass it along :DThe morgue file:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I mean, what does that even look like?
I don't know, but I had a go:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aw, sorry to hear that. It's pretty easy to at least get in there since all you need is to make it to -9.Also, Reiver why aren't you in the Challenge?Because I've been eaten alive by work and illness simultaneously. I'll be starting my first run of the new alpha... um... tonight.
I guess there'll be a participation medal in it for me if I play really quickly...
Bahahaha! It's overweight on those little treads and everything. I love it! You're a fantastic artist!
Whoa, best Cogmind fan art I've seen so far!Thanks guys! :)
Requesting permission to pass it along :DOf course, pass it wherever you must!
I'll also be reloading all the old graphs with new data from the Challenge as a whole.Oh goodie, I did suspect you might do this, but I'm glad it's been confirmed.
Oh goodie, I did suspect you might do this, but I'm glad it's been confirmed.Sooo many stats.
Heh, it might be tough to top that considering you don't know the formula and it's not only based on speed, but you can try (and perhaps give Happylisk a chance to take your 1337 title if he's having another go or two at high scores :P).
If you did I'd just go and win another combat run. :P I do want that achievement. The other achievements the rest of you can fight over, but 1337 is mine. :)
Don't think it'll be possible to snatch 1337 from zxc either. With the gap between us, a good run to Research wouldn't do it. I'd have to get a big fat win to close the gap (and that's a 3-4 hour investment right there).
E: Congrats zxc! It's interesting looking at a stealth log after knowing the game better. 99% low security level, only 29 combat robots killed. So different. Also, there are so many items in this game I've probably never seen. Vortex Chain reactor? Sounds awesome.Honestly it wasn't a stealth run. I made almost no attempt at stealth. It was an equip-flight-units-and-beeline-to-the-exits run. Got into a LOT of nasty situations. Do not try this at home. Also I'm convinced that there is a fairly common trap formation where there are stasis traps placed in front of a behemoth in the late-game. I've gotten caught in front of a behemoth far too many times to be just coincidence.
2 games ago, I found this advanced coolant network or something like that, that was a 2 utility slot item that did something insane like -90 heat per turn or so. Give me 2 of those and 4 nova cannons any day of the week.
Also I'm convinced that there is a fairly common trap formation where there are stasis traps placed in front of a behemoth in the late-game. I've gotten caught in front of a behemoth far too many times to be just coincidence.No, you're just lucky like that ;)
Whoa, that's a fast win, zxc. It's hard to do a direct comparison with the difficulty of Alpha 1, since some things have gotten harder (traps, speed bug fixed) and some easier (smaller squad sizes and lower Programmer frequency).My money's on a turncount speedrun being tougher in this version than Alpha 1. However, in that run I didn't get a programmer squad sent after me even once all game. I guess it was because I was speeding through the levels and not wasting time.
...hm, now that you mention it, on closer examination the distribution mechanics do make that combination somewhat likely. It wasn't intentional, but I like it 8)You're a bastard. I hope you know that.
Yep, when you're racing that fast, they don't have enough time to react.Whoa, that's a fast win, zxc. It's hard to do a direct comparison with the difficulty of Alpha 1, since some things have gotten harder (traps, speed bug fixed) and some easier (smaller squad sizes and lower Programmer frequency).My money's on a turncount speedrun being tougher in this version than Alpha 1. However, in that run I didn't get a programmer squad sent after me even once all game. I guess it was because I was speeding through the levels and not wasting time.
Requirement #1 for being a roguelike dev ;)...hm, now that you mention it, on closer examination the distribution mechanics do make that combination somewhat likely. It wasn't intentional, but I like it 8)You're a bastard. I hope you know that.
I'm on eight wins now and counting (five during this challenge). I'm collecting them now! One question: does turns passed consider 1 action = 1 turn, or 100 time = 1 turn?Ha, you are on quite a roll now. Turns passed is game turns, yes; not actions. (If it were the latter I'd definitely use that term. I will be adding Action Counts to the score sheet for the next release.)
Also, how does move speed interact with breaking stasis? Do you break out of stasis 10x faster at 10 move delay than you do with 100 move delay? Or are breaking attempts all the same length of time regardless of propulsion?An attempt is an action that takes 1 full turn regardless of your propulsion.
Edit: The scoreboard never updates when you want it to. I really want to know whether my last run improved on 1.08. Also, these are fantastically odd scores. I wonder if you did something like score = (1000 / turns) + (3000 / core damage taken) + (highscore / 20000) etc. with a bunch of factors like that.I honestly didn't have enough data when coming up with the formula for Best Escapes--too few previous wins! Still, it works out fine because the aim was to emphasize turn count to make sure speed/stealth runs could have their place on the leaderboards since they'll obviously get beat out by score. Destruction still plays an important role, though, so if you can wreak more havoc and get out faster you'd have a better escape rating. I would definitely redo the entire formula in the future if applicable to some event.
Edit2: Yay. 2.02 score. So it seems the best escape algorithm loves low turn counts. :P
I'm not in the top 3 for Against All Odds though, which I find strange because I managed to escape with this peak setup (and even this is inflated because I couldn't move with the launcher equipped, and other than the sensors my utilities were mostly useless.A few of the achievements, including that one, are slightly more easily taken by less experienced players who manage to reach the mid-game by barely scraping by. I wouldn't call carrying a Vortex Chain Reactor and Point Singularity Launcher "barely scraping by" :P. There are players out there who are barely playing with prototypes, much less some of the most awesome gear you can find!
Also the chainsword seems pathetically weak - maybe I just got unlucky with a ton of rolls but it compared unfavourably with stuff like katanas)Musta just been unlucky, since it's a direct upgrade. (Also the slower/longer attack animation might make it feel a little weaker, whereas you can get repeated slashes off and see results more quickly in real time with a Katana.)
Edit3: Also you can see here that this *4 rating flight unit is worse in every way compared to the *3 flight unit (I guess maybe the max integrity is better - that is the only explanation):I'll look into that one.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A few of the achievements, including that one, are slightly more easily taken by less experienced players who manage to reach the mid-game by barely scraping by. I wouldn't call carrying a Vortex Chain Reactor and Point Singularity Launcher "barely scraping by" :P. There are players out there who are barely playing with prototypes, much less some of the most awesome gear you can find!That's very true. Still, by the standards I'm used to, it felt like I reached the Surface nude! Got better things to do than to pick up items!
I removed that edit after some thought because I suspect the reason is twofold: 1. most likely higher max integrity 2. the *4 one has burnout whereas the *3 one has burnout 0 which DISPLAYS as though it's better but it probably means it can't be overloaded.Edit3: Also you can see here that this *4 rating flight unit is worse in every way compared to the *3 flight unit (I guess maybe the max integrity is better - that is the only explanation):I'll look into that one.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
-6 at the moment, still running. But I should stop soon. Too badYou know you could just get yourself killed and that will still count as a game considering you've already made it so far! Still 1 hour remaining :D
You know you could just get yourself killed and that will still count as a game considering you've already made it so far! Still 1 hour remaining :D
Thanks for the tournament K! it was a lot of fun. Despite taking a break from playing Cogmind til Alpha 4, I've started work on my strategy guide for combat runs. Hopefully once the full game drops they'll be a nice and comprehensive guide for newbies.A while back I was originally thinking Caves, but I think first we should have Extension, and the places that leads, because it's smaller and I can combine it with a bunch of other stuff discussed during the tournament. The Caves are going to be a pretty big production and need their own release, which wouldn't give me any time for this other stuff, so they should be Alpha 5 (and even then I'm not sure I can fit everything the caves will bring into a single release--there's a lot out there).
Any idea when 4 will drop? I'm assuming that'll give us Caves.
Hi there. Thanks for the tournament (and the game!). I am looking forward to seeing it get better and better.And get better and better it will!
Is there some hidden rule that one needs to have an account on the forum to be featured on the prize list? Since the prizes are forum badges, that would make sense -- but having a name on the list is a prize in itself.Whoops, you know what, there are no hidden rules, but apparently I didn't test the "final page generator" well enough before the end (just made it yesterday!), because it apparently left off a couple players! And just now I was wondering why I hadn't given you a badge, since I know you took an achievement... oops, I'll get on this right away (a few other achievements were dropped off the final list for some reason, too!). Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
(...)
Chad: I noticed you playing a heck of a lot and taking a number of achievements. The last Factory floor is where the difficulty (once again) really ramps up, so that's a tough barrier. The top 10 ended up being pretty competitive with a lot of players reaching that same general area!
(..)
I saw you got both Unstoppable and Generalissimo, pretty tough. For the latter I take it you visited Waste a couple times? Was that intentional, or did it "just happen"? :P
For the generalissimo achievement I don't know how I got it. Is it possible to get 41 allies in waste? I did I manage to get some friends at waste and find some drone bays? Don't know if the game counts all allies I had in the game or if he counts the maximum allies at the same time. I think it's the first case and I found some drone bays and later went to waste (for whatever reason).Ah yeah, Drone Bays would've helped there.
Is the Waste where the chute traps lead? Because I entered that once or twice intentionally, as I found that if you are fast you can avoid the crushers quite easily and there's some cool stuff down there.
Congratulations to everyone that participated, and especially to zxc and his absolutely insane 30k+ scoring run! You achieved my dream, man.
What about those stealth/speed wins you did? I imagine you didn't lose many parts with that approach. Watchers are an endless supply of good utilities for that sort of build, and the only other critical items are flight units.You're right, I didn't lose as many parts that way, but as a cruel twist the parts I did have became more valuable. I think I mentioned this in some of my older posts, but I got to the point where literally the only parts I cared about were prototype flight units and vision enhancements. 'Shedding' other parts just became a hollow-feeling 'well at least I didn't lose my eyes'. Maybe the game has changed enough to where I would need to be more well-rounded, but IMO that's all you need - scanners and ECM are just icing, but not the substance to my playstyle. I guess you could say my strategy was born around giving myself as little to stress over as possible.
Maybe you could reconsider once we hit 1.0 and the game will offer a greater variety of experiences with the vast expansion of the world and completion of the lore, though I wouldn't want you to, for example, feel obligated to then tackle the high-difficulty endings (you might not survive, let alone Cogmind :P)I don't think I can part with Cogmind forever, don't you worry! At the very least, it has a unique aesthetic and setting that I absolutely adore. My higher-level thoughts tell me that this is supposed to be a more arcade-y roguelike and I shouldn't stress over an individual run so much, but I never really found a way to make that click, haha. I will be back for more when the game is (closer to) finished! Perhaps then I won't feel so pressured to achieve because I'm sure there will be at least several 'Ancients' who have mastered the game :)
There is a hardcore shard in me that also doesn't quite respect the speed/stealth victory. As Kyzrati has said, it's kind of the game's easy-mode. Winning in combat became my holy grail, but unlike you I did not make it through the brick wall :PLater players have also had an easier time than you on that front, since Programmer frequency and squad sizes were both tuned down in later versions, along with integrity boosts for combat-important parts and benefits like no recoil with treads. Not that this would resolve the core issue of losing parts--there's still plenty of that--but the combat approach is more feasible than it ever was before.
The analysis of the tournament data (http://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/2015/10/player-metrics-alpha-challenge-2015/) has been posted, a mega post with dozens of graphs.
One thing I find curious is the min/max slots by type graph showing the same min and max for the floors -2 through 0. Is that some kind of strange coincidence?Yes, it turns out that the very few people who reached those areas were using the same setup. The ranges are much wider if I include all runs, but that data started to look more meaningless so (twice) I switched it back to the way it is now to reflect only best/high scores.
I am slightly ashamed to admit I haven't read any of the story-related text in Cogmind, nor have I pondered too deeply Cogmind's existence and how he came to be - in the scrapyard.