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Author Topic: Operators are dumb as heck  (Read 1822 times)

LuckyLuckLuc

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Operators are dumb as heck
« on: October 23, 2017, 11:55:56 PM »

First thing, getting an account was a little annoying because when it asked for "what game is grid sage developping" it did not accept "Cogmind". Almost kept me out of the forums and may keep others out.

It is apparently case sensitive and only "cogmind" is accepted. This is not the first developer i've come across that had a similar nuisance when trying to sign up to the forums.

Well to the topic. I have been trying to get hacking to work and the AI for the operators once you have assimilated them is very frustrating. The main thing is that when they are on follow command, they do not follow behind you but seem to hover around you. This is annoying sometimes as they will frequently hover in front of you and scout around a corner or into a door before you and get one shot. I feel the follow command should force them to stay behind you respective to your last movement, ex. if you are moving south, then they will not pass you to go south of you.

I have also had  few cases where I tell an operator to 'GOTO' a specific are and they sometimes take an odd path and run right past me into combat and die. Not sure if their path was blocked or something, but I was streaming all this so i could maybe hunt down a video if that would help.

Loving cogmind so far though, thanks for making a great roguelike! Cheers!

www.twitch.tv/luckyluckluc2
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Check me out on twitch or youtube! Streaming cogmind and the like usually!

www.twitch.tv/luckyluckluc2
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKdwXQK6nQT8piuDY1kZFtw

Kyzrati

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Re: Operators are dumb as heck
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 01:38:43 AM »

Hey LuckyLuckLuc! You're getting good fast.

Well to the topic. I have been trying to get hacking to work and the AI for the operators once you have assimilated them is very frustrating. The main thing is that when they are on follow command, they do not follow behind you but seem to hover around you. This is annoying sometimes as they will frequently hover in front of you and scout around a corner or into a door before you and get one shot. I feel the follow command should force them to stay behind you respective to your last movement, ex. if you are moving south, then they will not pass you to go south of you.
I've considered doing something like this for a while now, though it would require a little more nuance than that. For example, sometimes you have allies that you'd want to be in front of you. And sometimes you're direction might not be easy to intuit depending on the surrounding layout or recent quick changes in direction.

In any case, I have thought of making some changes there, but I'm not moving quickly on them because it's really time-consuming to work on AI, and the allied AI is intentionally a little dumb. I mean, if I made them really smart you wouldn't even have to do much and could win fairly easily :P

Fortunately your enemies aren't too smart, either!

If you're going to be nearing an unexplored corner and are slow enough that your Operator might pass you up, maybe tell them to STAY for a moment.

Imagine if your Operator stayed behind you and you approached the corner, see a large group of enemies then turn around to come back into hiding before you're spotted. With only basic rules in place, suddenly the Operator thinks it's a good idea to position itself behind your new direction, which means it's now out in the open xD

Anyway, my long-term plans already have an entry that reads
Quote
-add smarter AI for allied (controllable) non-combat bots, like operators, so that they know how to stay out of the way of battles
so that includes what you're talking about here as well. It's just a really big thing that's behind a whole bunch of other features at the moment.

I have also had  few cases where I tell an operator to 'GOTO' a specific are and they sometimes take an odd path and run right past me into combat and die. Not sure if their path was blocked or something, but I was streaming all this so i could maybe hunt down a video if that would help.
GOTO always takes the fastest path to the destination.

They may be blocked and take a different route if there is a known hostile trap and there are alternatives though.

First thing, getting an account was a little annoying because when it asked for "what game is grid sage developping" it did not accept "Cogmind". Almost kept me out of the forums and may keep others out.
Hm, seems odd that it wouldn't accept that, since it's not case sensitive and seems to work fine for others. I also just tried it on two new accounts to confirm and it worked as expected, accepting both "Cogmind" and "COGMIND". Perhaps you had another typo.

In any case, there are a number of anti-spam barriers to getting on the forums because spammers are really persistent and can easily be the death of small forums like this.

They're always trying to get in here, but they've only succeeded a few times in the past couple years (and that was before I recently added the first-post approval requirement, so now we'll never see them again!).

I would imagine the fact that we're not on HTTPS and modern browsers now all warn about it being "insecure" for passwords would be a bigger issue with regards to new members :P
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LuckyLuckLuc

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Re: Operators are dumb as heck
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 02:31:52 AM »

Oh another thing I forgot tomention is that your allies will often step on discovered traps even if there is a way through. And if there isn't, would be nice if they would at least temporarily wait a few turns while on follow.

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LuckyLuckLuc

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Re: Operators are dumb as heck
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 02:37:05 AM »

Thanks for the reply! Glad to know that friendly AI is on the chalkboard. I understand that this type of programming is probably quite a challenge.

For the subject on when i spot them and then turn around, I would still prefer this because as soon as i spot them, instead of turning around, at least i can order my technicians to safety. Maybe have some way to set a range to the follow or something along those lines would be nice.
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Check me out on twitch or youtube! Streaming cogmind and the like usually!

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Kyzrati

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Re: Operators are dumb as heck
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 02:54:45 AM »

AI already avoid discovered hostile traps unless the alternative path to reach the other side is too far away.

Also note that it can sometimes seem like they hit a known trap, when it was really an undiscovered one right next to a known one, because traps come in "arrays" (groups).
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LuckyLuckLuc

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Re: Operators are dumb as heck
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 09:19:41 AM »

Idk it seems like my Friendlies step on traps very frequently (i have an OP in the team so I see all traps, right?) I make it a point now to hold all my friendlies back and disable all the traps cuz they keep stepping on them even thoiugh there is a rather clear path.  A few times as i'm disarming them and i forgot to order them back, they step on the traps, super annoying.
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Check me out on twitch or youtube! Streaming cogmind and the like usually!

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LuckyLuckLuc

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Re: Operators are dumb as heck
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 09:21:48 AM »

I guess what could be happening is that I'm blocking the one tile that allows the path to go through so they step on it? or green bots perhaps. I need to start making notes of when these things occur and post some videos hehe.
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Check me out on twitch or youtube! Streaming cogmind and the like usually!

www.twitch.tv/luckyluckluc2
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKdwXQK6nQT8piuDY1kZFtw

LuckyLuckLuc

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Re: Operators are dumb as heck
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2017, 12:08:27 PM »

I made a few highlights of my stream when ally AI got on my nerves a bit. I hope this can help contribute.


trap triggered2 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/185031330

 dumb ally hallway

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/185032155

charging ally caves

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/185033342
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Check me out on twitch or youtube! Streaming cogmind and the like usually!

www.twitch.tv/luckyluckluc2
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKdwXQK6nQT8piuDY1kZFtw

LuckyLuckLuc

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Re: Operators are dumb as heck
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2017, 12:12:26 PM »

hmm in the charging ally caves video, It kinda makes sense how it behaved cuz I didn't notice he walked right in front of me and i believe i friendly fired him in the ass. I didn't do my usual thing and as soon as the fight starts tell him to go somewhere safe. So he was running away from me and into the enemies line of fire. 
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Check me out on twitch or youtube! Streaming cogmind and the like usually!

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKdwXQK6nQT8piuDY1kZFtw