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Author Topic: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions  (Read 919 times)

lsend

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Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« on: March 14, 2017, 04:24:56 AM »

After reading http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=760.0...

Whoa, so you tell me, that it is actually possible to break through blast doors and reinforced barriers?!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 06:35:09 AM by lsend »
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lsend

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 04:43:02 AM »

Quote
no good way that I can see yet to give mouse users access to this same information
Why not RMB?
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DDarkray

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 08:24:51 AM »

Whoa, so you tell me, that it is actually possible to break through blast doors and reinforced barriers?!

I heard it's theoretically possible to break any tile, but you need some serious damage output to pull that off (possibly with overloaded weapon).
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Kyzrati

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 06:10:24 AM »

Whoa, so you tell me, that it is actually possible to break through blast doors and reinforced barriers?!
Every single bit of terrain in the world is technically destructible, you just need to have the right tools :)

Quote
no good way that I can see yet to give mouse users access to this same information
Why not RMB?
RMB already does a lot of other things, including activating firing mode when clicking on solid spaces like walls so that they can be targeted directly without using the keyboard while there are no robots in sight. Not to mention misclicks when trying to get info for items and robots would potentially become even more annoying.
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Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames

lsend

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 07:08:49 AM »

Every single bit of terrain in the world is technically destructible, you just need to have the right tools :)

Did anyone try this? What firepower is needed? What weapons would be the best suited?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 07:18:48 AM by lsend »
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lsend

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 07:14:52 AM »

Quote
RMB already does a lot of other things, including activating firing mode when clicking on solid spaces like walls so that they can be targeted directly without using the keyboard while there are no robots in sight. Not to mention misclicks when trying to get info for items and robots would potentially become even more annoying.
I did not know that you can activate firing mode with RMB in some situations. Don't you think that it would be more consistent to use LMB for moving/firing and RMB for inspecting in every case?
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Kyzrati

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2017, 09:32:37 AM »

Using LMB to target walls doesn't work, because players accidentally click on walls all the time when moving around via mouse. Having to avoid them is a much bigger issue. Taking into account all the different user scenarios, and what I've seen from watching others play, the current setup is the best it can get without making radical changes that would ultimately add more complexity. Basically Cogmind does its best to get away with lots of interactions without the use of radial menus or forcing players to use the keyboard for common functionality. Overall very few sacrifices are necessary to keep it this way.
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Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames

DDarkray

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2017, 09:39:39 AM »

Maybe you can click using mouse wheel when hovering over terrain.
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lsend

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2017, 09:59:48 AM »

How about, if you have no active weapons, then rmb is inspecting?
And accordingly, if you have no active weapons, then lmb does not enter firing mode.

A bit off topic, but I would also like: if you hold shift (or whatever), then lmb movement does not stop when detecting threat.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 10:20:41 AM by lsend »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 07:14:15 PM »

Maybe you can click using mouse wheel when hovering over terrain.
Mouse wheel clicking is not a great user experience :/. Technically I've already assigned that button, though, which centers the view on Cogmind (the only way to do that without the keyboard, instead of using RMB to approximately recenter, or simply moving to recenter).

How about, if you have no active weapons, then rmb is inspecting?

And accordingly, if you have no active weapons, then lmb does not enter firing mode.
Overall I think this might contribute to confusion about the controls, which is why I wouldn't want to jump to this approach. Eventually something will have to be done about this, though, so it might have to involve a solution like this.

A bit off topic, but I would also like: if you hold shift (or whatever), then lmb movement does not stop when detecting threat.
What's your purpose here? My guess is to allow continued movement when watchers are in view (?). Either way, I'm this feature will cause you a lot more trouble than you think. But it's okay if you don't mind always giving hostiles the first shot...
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Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames

lsend

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 01:14:57 AM »

A bit off topic, but I would also like: if you hold shift (or whatever), then lmb movement does not stop when detecting threat.
What's your purpose here? My guess is to allow continued movement when watchers are in view (?). Either way, I'm this feature will cause you a lot more trouble than you think. But it's okay if you don't mind always giving hostiles the first shot...

Or even better, stopping only after seeing new threat. So ok, break the movement when you see the watcher or other hostile robot for the first time, so I can evaluate the situation, but then let me ignore it. I often know, that I can easily outrun met enemy, even if I will got shot once or twice.
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Kyzrati

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 04:16:08 AM »

I have for a while now been planning to allow running after spotting a new Watcher the first time (specifically Watchers, because that's the main case where the movement can get annoying, especially for mouse users). It's somewhat difficult to implement that exception (and also decide the particulars of how it should work), so it's sat on my TODO list for a while and got pushed down. Still there :P

Once that case is implemented, allowing it to optionally extend to other hostiles should be fairly easy.
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Josh Ge, Developer - Dev Blog | @GridSageGames

lsend

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Re: Progress Update: March 14th, 2017 Discussions
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 06:28:55 AM »

Once that case is implemented, allowing it to optionally extend to other hostiles should be fairly easy.

Good to know, thank you. I usually move with mouse during peace time and switch to keyboard when encounter enemy. It works rather smooth for my typical playstyle (stealth speed running) and I think it could be even smoother if I could stick to mouse movement more often. I just do not see the need to correct my movement route every single turn.
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