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Author Topic: An Alternative UI? (Moving away from 4:3 to get larger fonts)  (Read 4388 times)

Kyzrati

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An Alternative UI? (Moving away from 4:3 to get larger fonts)
« on: January 11, 2016, 08:26:06 PM »

It's finally here, a dedicated blog post looking at the history behind Cogmind's 4:3 UI, and considering whether and how to provide a separate layout more suitable for smaller screens (so that we can increase the font size a bit).

Anyone who has trouble with the fonts being too small on their screen should check it out.

And technically everyone else, too (:P), because as discussed this proposal would impact everyone.

Edit/Update: This issue is now closed, and you can read about the final decision and reasoning in the following posts:
http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=389.msg3591#msg3591
http://www.gridsagegames.com/forums/index.php?topic=389.msg3619#msg3619
(The thread is still open if you want to continue dropping comments, though! Just know that the decision has been made and will not be changed for this project.)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 09:33:58 PM by Kyzrati »
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Nikolai

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Re: An Alternative UI? (Moving away from 4:3 to get larger fonts)
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2016, 06:43:55 AM »

I'm prepared to beg for the bigger fonts if necessary.  Comparing the two images one after the other on my 1366x768 laptop, I find the larger font so much more readable.  Legibility is probably the only barrier to my not spending ungodly amounts of time playing the game currently... and I so want to spend ungodly amounts of time playing the game.  :)
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Kyzrati

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Re: An Alternative UI? (Moving away from 4:3 to get larger fonts)
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 02:14:03 AM »

Haha, I don't know, you're tempting me to not want to take ungodly amounts of time away from you :P. I don't want to be sabotaging your own projects, now! It'd be nice if you could hook up to an external monitor.

Thanks for the comparison and feedback--desire noted and I'm still collecting opinions to see what happens...
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Chinook

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Re: An Alternative UI? (Moving away from 4:3 to get larger fonts)
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 09:32:43 PM »

I picked this up after hearing about it in the roguelike games thread on Something Awful.  I did not try the demo, because I was so impressed with your website.  The presentation of your goals, your honesty about limitations and prices, and so on.

So far I am very impressed, but I would probably pay another $30 to have everything look bigger on my 1920x1080 setup.  The smallness of the everything was by far my primary thought at all times while playing.  Thanks for even considering addressing this.  (I don't think I have my badge yet, as I just registered this account within the last hour, but I promise I am an alpha supporter, haha)

Good luck with everything.
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Kyzrati

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Re: An Alternative UI? (Moving away from 4:3 to get larger fonts)
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2016, 10:01:47 PM »

Hi Chinook, thanks for the support!

I forgot to update this particular thread (there are discussions about this spread all over the place since I was trying to collect feedback from as many sources as possible), but after several weeks in the main discussion under the blog post itself I concluded that the effect of the proposed changes would be too small to warrant the amount of work it would require, especially given the lukewarm support for this change :(

I've no doubt it's going to be a source of more complaints down the road with an expanded audience, but this was how the game was designed from the ground up and it makes more sense to take it into consideration with a sequel rather than doubling back on so much of the UI.

However, I'm trying my best to work in some alternatives--for the next version I've added even more font choices, some of which will show up better at all sizes, though they won't technically be larger. (The default font is also changing.)

For now I recommend using a font other than the default, probably 18/Terminus, since that at least helps improve readability.

In general I need (and try) to stress that Cogmind is really a desktop game... last month I added a UI preview feature to the buy page, but I'm sure plenty of people miss it.

(I don't think I have my badge yet, as I just registered this account within the last hour, but I promise I am an alpha supporter, haha)
Yeah, I go through the registration forms every couple days or so, just make sure you've signed up via the emailed link and it'll be added soon :)

Thanks! (And I hope you also have a chance to play on a physically larger screen...)
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rabbit

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Re: An Alternative UI? (Moving away from 4:3 to get larger fonts)
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2016, 11:47:29 AM »

First off, I'm usually more of a lurker; not one to register and comment on forums, and so probably not well suited as an alpha tester. However in this case, I felt compelled to register and post before this topic gets backburnered and filed away due to lack of feedback.

I'm on a PC with a 23" monitor running 1920x1080 resolution and no vision problems, and I have some UI suggestions / requests within the scope of an alternate UI.

a) In fullscreen with 18/Terminus I find it OK, but the bright green on black background does get hard on the eyes after a while. Might it be possible to add support for menu & UI themes/color schemes? For example, I could read text on this forum's gray theme all day.

2) I would love to see a larger font & tile size in the future. Something closer to DCSS font & tile sizes would be amazing.

I realize you would lose some range of vision and it would affect some of the scanning parts, but i wonder if there isn't an alternative solution than just neutering their function to suit larger tiles.
- Maybe a toggle-able mini map?
- or when you hold a key to pan around the map it might zoom out while you're holding it?
- What about binding the numpad +/- keys to a zoom function, allowing you to zoom in/out at will. If something enters your vision outside of your zoom level, show an icon and the edge of the map window -- prompting you to zoom out and see what's there.

I made a couple mockups and uploaded them here: http://imgur.com/a/kYqQ3
And here as a gif: https://i.imgur.com/zRcP9UM.gifv

d) Finally, one smaller concern. I like to play windowed mode, but I don't want to sacrifice my 18/Terminus to fit the whole game on my screen. Even if I move my taskbar to the side, i still lose enough of the screen that I can't see the inventory hotkeys on the bottom edge of the screen (t\m\i). It may be a minor annoyance but it is one nonetheless.

This might be solved by reducing the vertical tile count by a few (as you mentioned elsewhere as possible). Alternatively, an option for a borderless window? I'm not sure how that might affect anything.

To close, I think Cogmind is a fun and unique take on a unique genre, and some user experience improvements in the above areas could go a long way to broaden its appeal; not only for people with some visual impairment or a smaller screen, but also everyone else.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 02:05:51 PM by rabbit »
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Kyzrati

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Re: An Alternative UI? (Moving away from 4:3 to get larger fonts)
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 09:29:35 PM »

Hi rabbit, welcome and thanks for putting so much effort into your feedback!

I have to start by saying that
Quote
before this topic gets backburnered and filed away due to lack of feedback.
this has unfortunately already happened. (That's why I went ahead and finally implemented the world map UI which was waiting on the backburner for a while since like many other parts of the UI it, too, would be developed based on fundamental assumptions surrounding the UI dimensions and layout.)

There simply wasn't enough feedback or desire to justify the investment. In fact, there were about as many players/followers speaking out against a change. (And to put it in context, thousands of people, both current and potential players, were informed of this analysis and asked to comment, after which I waited a month to collect feedback from a dozen different social media platforms, so it's not like this flew under the radar or anything :P)

To address your points: Aside from the design issues mentioned in the OP/analysis, Cogmind is unlike most other games in that it adheres to a traditional roguelike terminal window (not just aesthetically but also in terms of architecture!) and therefore features like selective zooming and minimaps don't work.

I certainly agree that ideally Cogmind would have smaller grid dimensions, which is why I took this under serious consideration in the first place, though it's too late for the required changes to the game's fundamental structure that would ripple throughout the source and put it even further behind schedule.

Quote
Might it be possible to add support for menu & UI themes/color schemes? For example, I could read text on this forum's gray theme all day.
It's possible and already partially supported, though won't happen in the near term. I've written about it before here. Not sure how far I'll go with that, and it'll likely not be until after 1.0 before I look at it again. The main thing I worry about is that development won't be sustainable indefinitely, so I have to prioritize features by importance relative to the core game... (If money weren't an issue, sure we could guarantee everything :P)

About the t/m/i, note that you can press 't' 'm' and 'i' to access those, which is quicker than clicking on those small buttons. Not ideal for someone who wants to take advantage of full mouse control, of course. Since you bring it up, I'll eventually look into potential support for an alternative fullscreen mode that uses a borderless window. Most players prefer true fullscreen as opposed to windowed fullscreen, so that's what the engine was built on.
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